"What I propose, Administrator, is the activation of the Harmonium military judicial system to process captured enemy combatants during time of war. You'll still have your courts to deal with the day to day criminal elements of the city, of which the Harmonium will still investigate and arrest as usual but Anarchists and their supporters? They'll no longer be considered criminals to the Harmonium... they'll be considered aggressors... legal targets as enemy combatants of war.
As for internment... they'll get their trials and will serve their sentences... just not here. They'll be considered prisoners of war under the War Measures Act. Out of your jurisdiction... our responsibility. No more loopholes, no more plea bargains that gain nothing and no more release back into the arms of their comrades due to technicalities."
He pours himself a mug of Ale as he settles in for what will probably be a long argument...
Harmonium Meeting
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Caterina listens patiently she scribbles a a note or two on the back of some paper. When Shamus has finished she speaks
"I think you raise a few good points, the Revolutionary League has become a problem and they do need dealing with. The way you propose to do so though is impractical.
You mention a war measures act, whilst I am sure it is of paramount importance in Fortitude Ortho and Arcadia it carries no weight in sigil. If you try to do what you are suggesting, then the other factions will take notice and without the legitimacy the law lends their actions they will call you to account. The nature of your actions means you will be without the support of your usual allies in the triad, and your Factol will have to answer to it in the hall of speakers and he will have to make one of two choices, either back down or defy the other factions.
The first course of action would be counter productive to our cause, and yes I do consider this our cause. It will make you appear weak and the triad divided this hands far too much of an advantage to our enemies.
The second course of action would be an unmitigated disaster. A direct conflict with the other factions is I think one you know you cannot win. Let us dismiss this as the madness it is.
I can however think of an alternative if you are interested."
"I think you raise a few good points, the Revolutionary League has become a problem and they do need dealing with. The way you propose to do so though is impractical.
You mention a war measures act, whilst I am sure it is of paramount importance in Fortitude Ortho and Arcadia it carries no weight in sigil. If you try to do what you are suggesting, then the other factions will take notice and without the legitimacy the law lends their actions they will call you to account. The nature of your actions means you will be without the support of your usual allies in the triad, and your Factol will have to answer to it in the hall of speakers and he will have to make one of two choices, either back down or defy the other factions.
The first course of action would be counter productive to our cause, and yes I do consider this our cause. It will make you appear weak and the triad divided this hands far too much of an advantage to our enemies.
The second course of action would be an unmitigated disaster. A direct conflict with the other factions is I think one you know you cannot win. Let us dismiss this as the madness it is.
I can however think of an alternative if you are interested."
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*Darkrob
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
An alternative? We've been living with the alternative the entire time we've been here. Get attacked... stand about while paperwork is processed and deals are made and then finally be permitted to act only to have prisoners released due to legal loopholes and technicalities from bleeding heart lawyers and judges within the courts.
What has that gained us so far, Administrator? Dead soldiers, that's what.
But, please... present your alternative. I'm sure our front line officers are holding their breath in anticipation for more bureaucratic solutions...
What has that gained us so far, Administrator? Dead soldiers, that's what.
But, please... present your alternative. I'm sure our front line officers are holding their breath in anticipation for more bureaucratic solutions...
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"I will not cheapen the memorey of the depsrted to use the sentiment their deaths creates in order to further an argument, suffice to say the Harmonium is not the only faction to sustain losses.
As for your current frontline troops what you propose will not help them in fact it will make things harder for them if you could implement it, which thankfully you cannot.
So let me suggest something which will work. We do as you suggest, those arrested under the charge of being members of the revolutionary league are removed from sigil and interned somewhere else in order that they assist with your inquiries while they await trial. The trials however continue to be conducted by the Fraternity and sentences carried out by the mercykillers. this way you maintain support with in the triad and a dangerous element is removed from sigil.
Before you dismiss this out of hand remember to do this legally you will need to get it past by the hall of speakers, and you cannot do that alone.
She turns to mover Cass
"On the subject of frontline losses I did recently learn that a forged Harmonium seal was being used to manipulate troop movements within the hive. I raised this with one of your Measures but was informed it was none of my concern. I keep a copy of all my correspondence if it is any help. I am of course concerned with preventing the unnecessary loss of life."
As for your current frontline troops what you propose will not help them in fact it will make things harder for them if you could implement it, which thankfully you cannot.
So let me suggest something which will work. We do as you suggest, those arrested under the charge of being members of the revolutionary league are removed from sigil and interned somewhere else in order that they assist with your inquiries while they await trial. The trials however continue to be conducted by the Fraternity and sentences carried out by the mercykillers. this way you maintain support with in the triad and a dangerous element is removed from sigil.
Before you dismiss this out of hand remember to do this legally you will need to get it past by the hall of speakers, and you cannot do that alone.
She turns to mover Cass
"On the subject of frontline losses I did recently learn that a forged Harmonium seal was being used to manipulate troop movements within the hive. I raised this with one of your Measures but was informed it was none of my concern. I keep a copy of all my correspondence if it is any help. I am of course concerned with preventing the unnecessary loss of life."
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*Darkrob
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Okay... let's say your suggestion holds enough merit to consider as viable. Simple investigations do nothing against the Revolution. Intelligence is only as viable so long as it is relevant. By the time it takes to get the right permissions to search houses... they've moved. Like rats in the night.
If we keep this a civil matter, as you've proposed, we would need the tools to move on people the moment we suspect something... not days after the fact. Under the War measures act, we can search houses without warrant as soon as we suspect an enemy. Can the Fraternity get us that in Sigil? If not... we're right back where we started.
If we keep this a civil matter, as you've proposed, we would need the tools to move on people the moment we suspect something... not days after the fact. Under the War measures act, we can search houses without warrant as soon as we suspect an enemy. Can the Fraternity get us that in Sigil? If not... we're right back where we started.
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"You keep repeating the war measures act as if it has any meaning here. It doesn't.
If you can show probable cause that a suspect is a member of the Revolutionary League then the Fraternity will get you a warrant to search. I've probably had more personal involvement in combating the anarchists than most present here if you worry for your warrant come and speak to me, directly."
If you can show probable cause that a suspect is a member of the Revolutionary League then the Fraternity will get you a warrant to search. I've probably had more personal involvement in combating the anarchists than most present here if you worry for your warrant come and speak to me, directly."
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*Darkrob
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Shamus ponders this a moment...
"I'm not buying it. All I see is the same Fraternity strategy of forcing the Harmonium to put law ahead of Order, to elevate Fraternity beliefs to a higher importance to that of Harmonium beliefs. All we seem to do in this city is grovel before Law... order be damned.
Lucky for the Administrator, I don't make the decisions around here..."
Takes a drink of his Ale
"Perhaps it's time my superiors got involved in this conversation."
"I'm not buying it. All I see is the same Fraternity strategy of forcing the Harmonium to put law ahead of Order, to elevate Fraternity beliefs to a higher importance to that of Harmonium beliefs. All we seem to do in this city is grovel before Law... order be damned.
Lucky for the Administrator, I don't make the decisions around here..."
Takes a drink of his Ale
"Perhaps it's time my superiors got involved in this conversation."
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"Lucky for everyone. As for your scepticism you have never to my knowledge approached me for a warrant before so I fail to see what it is based upon, but please if you do not feel qualified to continue this discussion make room for someone who is."
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*Darkrob
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"Oh I am perfectly qualified, Administrator. Do not think to insult me so openly. You sit in a hall of Order right now, not law, and would do well to remember that. This is not the courts. This is the Barracks.
As for warrants. You are but one clerk in a city of clerks. You do not hold a monopoly on warrants. I needn't seek only you out to beg permissions to do my job..."
As for warrants. You are but one clerk in a city of clerks. You do not hold a monopoly on warrants. I needn't seek only you out to beg permissions to do my job..."
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*Midnight
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
"I may be one clerk but I am the clerk that your superiors have invited to be here. I have offered you my help you have made it clear you do not want it. Do not perceive insult I am merely agreeing with you. It is time your superiors speak."