Sigil: City of Doors

is there any way that guard players that are not purely dedicated wis based spell-casting spotters could counter the insanely high sneak values attainable or are skill points put in spot and listen just worthless?

ovarf,Aug 10 2010 wrote: is there any way that guard players that are not purely dedicated wis based spell-casting spotters could counter the insanely high sneak values attainable or are skill points put in spot and listen just worthless?

I would like to point out this fun fact before you get upset.

Listen/Spot folks will always have one up on the sneaks, and here's why.

When actively listening/spotting, you get your value (Mod+skill) PLUS another d20 against anything in the area. The folks that are doing the sneaking don't get a d20 against anyone trying to find them. Their ability to be sneaky is static.

So unless a server favors stuff geared for sneaking, it's always the seeker builds that have the advantage.

Bard :P it's not wisdom based spellcaster.

Depends how dedicated hiders you want to see? The most dedicated? Well no... if you want to see most dedicated hiders, you have to be dedicated spotter, no way around it.

i hear this argument over and over but somehow my non casting non wis based maxed out spot and listen skills seem to be completely unable to spot anyone even 10 levels lower then them.

so i polity disagree with the initial assessment. not to mention there is easaly 15 points in hide move silent gear here and near as i can tell 5 points available on gear to spot and listen

I didn't say that. I said that you can't see dedicated hiders unless you're dedicated spotter. Meaning if you invest in spot/listen while not being dedicated, you can see the undedicated hiders still. If that's worth it or not, that's up to you.

so the answer to the question I posed is yes be a bard otherwise no.

Well you could front some jink and buy some Clairvoyance/Clairaudience wands from some casters.... That's a +10 to each for the length of the spell.
There's an enchantment for helmets that gives +5 to one or the other.

And on a side note to the whole Wisdom thing... Sneaks generally are Dexers, and Hide/MS is a Dex skill. So a maxed out dex-based character is running around with like a +8 to +12 on top of their skill, and that's without any gear adding Hide/MS selectively, or feats used, or buffs like Camouflage, or having a caster pet... etc etc etc.

Or I could say this.
And I mean no offense, and I don't mean to be rude or snarky or whatnot...
But if you're not seeing someone, then it's probably a safe bet they're not meant to be seen?

Some characters are just that good, and really dedicated means have to be used to catch them.

Edited for spelling errors.

According to the NWN2 Wiki, sneakers do get a d20 roll, it's not a static chance. Still, it's a Wiki, so they're not always correct.

However, remember that in active search mode, hide and listen checks are made every six seconds. All it takes is one win and the sneak is seen, so in reality versus actual players who use active search, sneaks need hide/move silently scores twenty more than the spot/listen score of the searcher to be assured of remaining undetected.

On the other hand, DMs see everything.

Dedicated Spotter can generally spot a Dedicated Hider... if a Non-dedicated Spotter could spot a Dedicated Hider, there would not be any chance of IC spying, and IC spying does provide a big amount of interesting roleplay.

That said, anyone who feels harassed by someone spying on them constantly can contact DM's to have us have a talk with the spy.

And any harmonium char who feels they char is being IC harassed by a "you can't catch me since I've hotkeyed stealth" character, can notify DM's who aren't afraid to have the Lady of Pain flay someone if they are flaunting their abilities of not being caught while doing stupid stuff.