Loot Overhaul Discussion

[*MimiFearthegn]

Why are Use/Day Items being reduced/removed from the the list?

They're not. Those guidelines are for NEW items.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Use/day items aren't being removed from the list. We just prefer to add items with charges instead of them. How about everyone stop making assumptions? :P

Charges are better for the economy. People float around with a ton of items and a good way to get rid of some of them is to make sure there's more reasons to destroy them via magic electrifier. And Magic Electrifier has been planned to be added into a store for good while. And if we get enough items with charges it'll speed up the process also.

[*Lucadia]

Any chance of modifying the electrifier to store all charges and not waste them all on one recharge use?

[*Niryain]

My biggest concern about the proposed loot overhaul is, no surprise, grandfathering. Will appropriate measures be taken to remove/replace items taken out of the loot tables from characters, particularly if they're powerful ones that don't have any appropriate replacement? If not, that is a major problem, as characters will then be strictly stronger than other characters based solely on 'I've been here longer'. That is a terrible place to be in. PWs die over that.

This is a different situation from outsider alignment grandfathering. As awkward as that RP often is to deal with, those are established characters that would have been angry to be forced to be shunted away. In this situation, you'd essentially be saying 'we don't want this item around anymore but if you already have it it's whatever'. Which sends terrible mixed messages and is old guard favoritism.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Some people will always have items others don't, some out of events, others out of other reasons. If you can't live with that idea, I'm not sure a roleplaying environment, which is pretty much all about people trying to become unique in their own ways, is the best of choices. :P And those whom are around longer have higher chances of having them. Removing items from loot tables is actually just about the same as alignments, it's a soft measure where time is allowed to do its duty to clean up the system gradually because players too will eventually move on.

That besides, we're actually looking to clean up some of the terrible stuff like mundane ammunition, wine, spirits, ale, torches etc. from the loot list.

On another note; welcome back.

[*Niryain]

Hey, someone has to brute force the hard discussions/arguments because no one else seems willing to. At least not in public.

There is a very fine difference between loot tables and DM events. DM event items are typically one off, earned through story/whatever, or given to a very small group at most. These items are ideally unique to the character that got them and thus there's no point in being angsty because if the DM team is competent then everyone should ideally get a shot at similar things given enough time in the long run.

I liken loot tables more to traditional MMOs and their way of handling loot. I kill X, I get Y. I put in the effort and get out an appropriate reward. If the tables change such that the best items in a given class are removed, then I can put in the same amount of effort as someone did a year ago but get less from it. PvE content should be the equalizer, something everyone can put time into and get a similar baseline from, with DM content being the exception. And that DM content typically aggregates to one or maybe two unique items in a character or even player's lifetime with a server.

Worse, it would encourage a legacy character cartel. You'd say the items would die out over time. I've seen the opposite happen on NWN1 Sigil. Gold became useless there due to successive server iterations allowing legacy characters while nerfing the loot table. What use had you for gold as a legacy character when nothing you could buy meant anything? No, rather, these items became so prized that the only way to get them was to participate in a barter economy with other powerful, legacy items. Anyone that joined after server two was essentially fucked.

That said if the main intention is to clean out 'useless shit', jolly good.

[*Hydra]

[*shadowblizmasta]

I have to agree with Niryain, if you are going to remove powerful magic items from the loot table, you should also remove them from those that have them. I'm not saying this as a sour grapes thing, because I have characters with some of the items that I can guarantee would be grandfathered in. I have characters with Spine Splitter, characters with Momentum, and other assorted items like that. If you want to remove items because they are too overpowered, don't use half-measures. It's shitty for new players, and I've heard complaints on other servers that I won't name that used a grandfathering policy, and it tended to alienate them more than anything else.

[*Ariella]

We will be grandfathering in any changes, players who have the items have fairly earned them and we will not be taking them away. It shouldn't matter what someone else has it has no effect on your rp, there will be plenty of new items to find!.

[*Ceremorph]

Niryain, we are not looking to remove a group of specific items as "too powerful" here, simply to change things up. I know that what you're thinking of is on other servers, where they suddenly decide to stop offering high-magic items and you wind up with a group of long-timers who are the only ones who have them and are thereby more powerful than everyone else. This is NOT what we're planning to do.

The only things that are likely to be removed that aren't in that "junk" category are ones that are utterly useless or have balance problems, which may simply wind up tweaked anyways. And the addition of new items, both for collection and to add to the "purple" category, will result in more options for players, not fewer.