SKILLS PNP

[*blain_the_mono]

Hi, I am a player from Sundren. The thing about there PW that impresses more than anyother world , is there implementation of PnP skills, and Feats. They have a great working Grapple *excellent working hak, with full Gui options on round end to pin/ release is succeed check* . They have Charge, excellent working hak. On top of this, they have every single skill from the 3.5 players handbook. But its not just the fact that they added in these RP skills. They actually are able to work outside of RP only situations. EG. You can target another PC, click on there custom DMFI gui **looks alot different**, and the game will roll the disguise roll for you, and the opposing spot roll for the other PC. It does this with everysingle custom skill, and every default NWN2 skill in one form or another. Even there rope check rolls to see if you bind them. Then they roll an escape artist check against you, and the scripting auto rolls your rope check. On top of all this, many default skills were tweaked, or removed and replaced with the real pnp version. EG. Lore was removed and replaced with 8 different Knowledge skills. ITs a robust system, and it blows ALFA's custom skill mods out of the water.

Now, my long winded statement. Sigil CoD has really impressed me as well. You have taken a setting that interests me more than any other , because of the possibilities it unleashes for content/different worlds/ and just all around strange things we have never seen in a game before. IF you were to polish the game mechanics and add in more RP tools, PnP skills, and just more PnP haks in general , it would be awsome. I know there is a "To Do list"/"Wish list", and i was surprised to not see anyone say "I wish we could make the game more PnP friendly, or "Custom PnP skills, RP tools". Seems players usually want better looking models, or the ability to tweak appearances, more than they would want Rules Haks, and RPers Content. Those have always been the top on my list. The more i can see rolling in the TEXT window, the more I can see explained in the TEXT window, and in General, the more Rules mechanics I can visually see working, and See a text readout for, the happier I am. I have always loved the logic and math involved in Dungeons and Dragons. The biggest joy i get from haks is when it takes something from the rulebook, and adds it to NWN, or as I call it "The Dungeons and Dragons Maker". I would love to see Sigil go in the Direction of Hardcore Rules. Also , i would really love to have to roll a Swim check if im caught in the Elemental plain of water, with full plate. Not just roll it for RP, have a scripted check as well, so as the Skills arnt just static RP props. They can be used both ways, thats the key. IN RP can use, also, the games scripts make use of them too. That way players will have to invest points into them if untrained.

[*Product of Void]

Ah, Been to sundren as well. Keep in mind what they had takes A LOT of scripting. while I do understand some of how I could make it work there was a few things I had no clue.

I did like the xp ticker though, here they have xp for rp which is better then folks just sitting and hitting save every five minutes.

Biggest problem with adding all those skills is you would have to re-build every character to have the ability to take the skills. On top of modifying what they are.

Currently targeting others is possible and rolling skills etc. If you decided to grapple/pin etc just discuss it in tells. Seen folks discuss it ooc while doing rolls etc.

Major thing to keep in mind some people Roll play others Role play. Some things I even flat out ignore as will others. If you have a bluff of 100 and try to convince everyone you now rule Sigil and have a 100k tax...pretty sure its going to fail.

Making me think of sundren re minds me of something sad, I once retired a character not for lack of enjoyment, but due to forgetting their personality and speech.

As for custom content to add, more areas, and more classes would be nice *chants* shapeshifter.

Though I did like how they had an area that would do 1 point of cold damage over and over would be better then the cold traps or triggers in the elemental cold area.

[*Ceremorph]

So in a way, you won't ever really need to roll-play against NPC's and creatures unless a DM asks for the roll to gauge your success against their own DC or standard.

And that, I think, is the point to it. But let's go into slightly more detail.

Firstly, random rolls, much like stated above, often do not take things into consideration, such as the character level issue in intimidation. As a DM? Unless there is something plot-worthy to be gained or something that I feel would contribute to the intimidation factor, most likely attempted intimidation rolls will be ignored.

Example one: someone tries to intimidate Seethe. Now, in addition to the fact of being of decent if not world-shattering level (not going any further into detail than that), it has already been revealed either in-character or OOCly in the IC forums that she's travelled the planes (including some amazingly inhospitable places) and has powerful allies. In addition, most of the time there's a giant 800-lb. reptile-person within earshot who most likely is every bit as tough as he looks. So unless the situation merits fear beyond the simple "I could get my ass kicked here" to her, she's probably not going to be fear-struck by anything short of a visit from the Lady of Pain. An attempt at intimidation by someone without the goods to make it stick will come off as bluster.

Example two: Ripper Rog is a strung-out halfling rogue who lives in the Hive. Say a Harmonium member meets him and decides to shake him down for information. If someone walks up and plays the intimidation card, I'll most likely accept it... but on the other hand, he's going to immediately start looking for a chance to run, and will be more likely to lie. On the other hand, if he's cornered, I may ASK for an intimidation roll, which if passed will cause him to blab every secret he knows.

So in realilty, just spamming rolls could actually wind up harming your character's chances of success.

Now, part 2 would concern myself as a player, and for this I'm going to actually use an example from the other night (and the person this occurred with should recognize it). Playing as my PC, I found myself in a situation where my PC was offended by the actions of another. However, I also knew this other was a newly minted low-level character, and the last thing I wanted was to have this descend into a PvP situation (also note that I personally despise PvP in 99% of all situations, because it truly solves absolutely nothing in an RP world). My character would want to try to intimidate the other... but using role-playing. As such, he took of his metal gauntlet and slapped the other character across the face with it (rolled a 20 and added my bare-hand BAB, which resulted in a hit). This did not intimidate, but rather enraged the other character (which definitely fit far more with the character's personality than being frightened), and there was a fun little bit of posing and posturing before another character (whose position and notoriety within Sigil would most likely prove that they could intimidate anyone with half a brain) stepped in to keep it from turning into war in the Bazaar.

If I'd have chosen the right-click-and-attack option, it would have lasted 10 seconds and I would have come off as a griefer.

If I'd just rolled an intimidate check... well, that would not have fit with the "courtly" manners that my character tries to have, and "success" with it would not have fit with the other player's "hot-tempered" RP.

The only thing I would change doing it again would be to send a tell to the other player before making the slap simply to let them know it was coming out of sight of others, but for the most part that is how I would play it unless there was a DM present specifying that rolls should be made.

[*blain_the_mono]

[*Product of Void]

:o BETSY NO.....You killed my cow.

[*mute83]

and some of us havent played DnD PnP. others proberly havent played PnP at all. last time i played DnD PnP, was back when you had the box, where the races already had their class, and you got that "nice, map", to start in :D

[*Lost and not Found]

Stop the hoarse.


Edit: Oooh, good times, good times.

[*blain_the_mono]

umm yeah.

BIoware and Obsidian did not try and make NWN like a WoW game as far as rules , sorry bro. Theres a reason why its title is held as the best D&D adaption EVER. Theres a reason why they used the source books when designing the game, and worked hand in hand with WoTC to design content. They WERE EXTREMELY dedicated to emulating as much as was possible from the said Core books+, and if something was broke, they fixed it to work like it was intended in PnP. Not up for debate. They have said a million times, the reasons for leaving stuff out, or changing things. The similarities complety , and utterly outway the differences, and the game remains true to the D&D formula better than any game ive ever seen, despite lots of things being left out. There is only one NWN, there are no other games like it, at all, as far as D&D is concerned. It is a unique entity that should never be compared to the likes of the utter crap that is WoW, or any other boring mmo. lol. *I like making people mad i guess*.


Anyways, my topic was just to show that seeing more D&D content into NWN IMPressed me, and I liked it. Thats all, it wasnt to sit here and yell at each other of gamming terms, and why you should do this and that, and this is that , , not that . . If your posting here, thers a good chance you love the game, or you wouldnt waste your time. Remember that when you think someones talking bad about you. Were all here because were the ones who really care about RP, and the game as a whole. IF we didnt, well, we wouldnt even waste our fricking time. Right? unless your a troll or a loser, and they do exist.

Ill give you an example of what the original topic was intended to convey to you.

EG. A while back , I used to play Spell casters. IT was a new thing for me, so I wanted to get and learn all the spells, understand how they functioned and why. And watch the mechanics to see if there were mistakes. IM A PROGRAMERRRR, i like this stuff o.k. So sue me.
So after awhile, i stated noticing discripencese*spelling* in the game scripts for spells. Then I went onto the vault and found a hak by REERON, intitled spells PnP. I was blown away by how much work this excellent modder did just to conform the game closer to the D&D he loved. He tweaked every single spell to specs, and he added a whole bunch. I really love this hak, and dont play without it now, as it really did a proper job on the spells makeover, .. I never really liked the other big spell hak on the vault, All it did was fix stuff. Reerons fixed and changed the stuff to specs, that impressed me, being a programer myself, that kind of stuff always impresses me *Remember that line* . That is my point, I like watching things work, I like seeing more rules implemted. Does this mean I roll play, HELLNO. All it means is that i have a love of math and logic skills, its my fricking job guys. I will sit there for an hour and half, two hours, maybe more, role playing without a single dmfi roll. Like i said, I only use it usually when requested, or when im doing the requesting as a DM in private games . , I like to invest skill points in non combat related skills, and obscure skills, because i like being able to use all the abilties, as far as skills go, not feats. ITs just a fettish if you will, thats all. It dosnt bother me at all when i see people using the dmfi dicebags. Although I do believe they should ask for rolls alot more, and not just flat out do them. Its hard for a DM to keep up, trust me, with the clunker we use, its very hard. I really encourage SLOW play in an event with a DM. Take turns talking, type "E" or "e" when ;your done with your dialog , and give another a chance to talk. Ask for rolls before you roll them!, EG. May i make a strength check. IF the roll is illogical as stated above with a few examples, the DM should use his judgment and not allow it. Thats how you solve that problem of people ROLL playing. You limit there use in an event, and set guidlines, that you must ask before you roll. DM word is law, and if she decides that just becasue your character has a 100bluff, hes still not going to convice everyone that hes the new ruler of Sigil, that the final word. PERIOD. problem solved GAngsta. ITs illogical, even in D&D. In pnp, the rules clearly state that every rule will be broken at one time or another by another rule. In so many words. The same can apply in DM run events. and NWN as a whole.

LETS ALL JUST KEEP IT CIVIL AND GET ALONG< WERE ARE HERE CAUSE WE LIKE TO PLAY, SO WHY MAKE IT UNCOMFORTABLE. I MEAN, BETTER TO BE FRIENDS AND HAVE ALOT OF US TO PLAY THE GAME WITH, THAN TO PISS EACHOTHER OFF OVER STUPID OPINION DIFFERENCES. I ADMIT, I CAN BE A HARD ASS, AND STUBORN. In fact, not in a million years would you guys guess i would play this game if you saw me in RL. My point is , were all different, and all have different opinons. Sometimes on a forum , the language barrier gets in the way, and im not talking about language as in foreign languages, Im talking about lingo, or game talk. Sometimes for lack of a better term, you may say something, and someone else completly percieves it the wrong way. WE CANT SEE EACH OTHER FACIAL EXPRESSIONS, if we could, we could tell whos being an Ass just by the look on his face. LOL> or possible that is his face. ?

ANyhoo, too da loo


Glad to be apart of the community, And everyone Ive seen posting so Far I have respect for. You guys obviously care.

[*Product of Void]

hardly say you stupid nor was anyone meaning to be insulting. Just showing their point of view and what they understood of the topic or of another topic inside the topic.

Programer eh? I tinker with it a little, one reason for my forum id change from what it was in nwn1. Perhaps you find it as comical as I do.

You are correct in saying everyone posting cares, and cares about rp. They would move on otherwise. Though PnP and NWN are vastly different. Both are very nice though, and seeing a dm cry or shout "WHY? WHY would you do that?" is worth re-making a character for.

There is lots of scripting that is needed or can be suggested a topic for it even if you want. I enjoy reading it for some odd reason.

look forward to seeing you IG.

void main()
{

return;
}
:D

[*Mr_Otyugh]

All in all... player makes the RP, not any of the numbers or the systems you use. :P There I said it all. If you play level 30 fighter, that doesn't make you roleplayer... it's how you use the tools provided with game mechanics for your roleplay that makes you roleplay.

I like to state things short :P