Mr_Otyugh,Aug 5 2016 wrote: BAB (Base Attack Bonus) never goes above 30, it defines number of attacks you can get, it can only increase by levels (or Divine Power temporarily). AB (Attack Bonus) can go above it and includes BAB into the calculations, but higher AB does not increase the amount of attacks you can put out.
Just adding this here because it seems to be mixed regularly.
I realize, but since i wont go into strength details its easier to list it as over max BAB. 40 AB is impressive but its 40AB + gear + atributes + feats. in the fighters base 33 ab + ect. . .
Lucadia,Aug 5 2016 wrote: Eh. it make sense if AT did get eldrtich master. Because. the prc here was changed to allow warlocks use of the class. Though you might want it for arcane archer too.
It's not in theme with the idea of the PrC. AT is supposed to be a rogue with magic, not a warlock with rogue abilities.
It also would be unbalanced if ATs could get it, imho.
Clerics are good because they have 30 bab with divine power (also +6 strength, which is nice) on top of a bunch of other ab and damage buffs (+3 from that one you can make permanent, +1 blessing, +1 aid, +1 prayer, +1 battletide, righteous might for extra damage, etc. etc), haste and lots of healing too. They also get bonus feats via domains and natural progression into divine shield / might.
Wizards are good because they have lots of ab in tenser's, 50% concealment, +4 ab from greater heroism, mirror images and the combo of dex and int is one of the better ways to reach high AC and insightful / combat insight damage. You don't really need that high of a caster level either, since a gish wizzie isn't focused on breaking spell resistance and tenser's + greater heroism + scrolls of low level cleric buffs has you rubbing the global ab cap at higher caster levels.
Mix those two together with mystic theurge and what have you got? A character so ridiculous that you don't even need tenser's, because your ab is so high from the other buffs that you'll go way over the global cap.
I think it's actually quite a bit stronger to use flavoured soul, a cleric level, mystic and sorcerer together for charisma + strength builds, since then you can pile EDM and divine shield onto all of that ridiculousness. The only downside of the build is that, while it is absurdly powerful, you're going to spend approximately fifty million billion years buffing before you can go anywhere.
Very simply you will never attain a higher AB then from a cleric or cleric/sorc. A cleric alone gets BAB of a a fighter from divine power including bonus attacks, permenant +6 AB +3 dmg, Access to haste like spells on top of another temperaty +4 ab +3 dmg. for a grand total of essentially a 40 BAB and +6 dmg.
Then there is the bonus +3 ac, +5 armor bonus and eternalness. As well as persistent vigor at +2 regen and a plethora of healing spells.
And then there is epic divine might/shield which gives a minimal of +16dmg/ac respectively.
Grab alittle monk and alittle SF and you easily hit over 60 ac.
Lucadia,Aug 5 2016 wrote: Eh. it make sense if AT did get eldrtich master. Because. the prc here was changed to allow warlocks use of the class. Though you might want it for arcane archer too.
It's not in theme with the idea of the PrC. AT is supposed to be a rogue with magic, not a warlock with rogue abilities.
It also would be unbalanced if ATs could get it, imho.
Unballance in what way? Fiends got it for free. We customized AT to not just be rogue wizard. it was for arcane. Theres nothing "unfair" about it. Warlocks are arcane users. Really now, you want a comparison? AT falls way below the mark of any other prc. They /might/ be appealing if they had some similar perks. Considering you already waste two class slots just qualifying for the prc. sneak dice is situational. They have lowiest tier bab.
If they was designed to be a warlock prc (and they was added as one for our server) then they can have chance of getting eldrtrich adept considering how poor the prc is for a choice.
There is always option to go either pure fighter or just fighter/WM for Epic Weapon Spec...
With Epic Weapon Focus It will make one end up with huge BAB as well as damage reduction and epic bonus feats for tons of STR or if one wishes - resilience, vitality and defense feats.
Buffing? It is good to have that, but while one buffs, this thing can just strike lucerne hammer into buffing char's brain.
PvE? No buffing needed, this thing is as strong, as if it was cleric with BAB buffs.
Have cleric friend? If friendly cleric comes and buffs this machine of mayhem and destruction, it will cobble-roll everything it sees anywhere on server.
Lucadia,Aug 5 2016 wrote: Unballance in what way? Fiends got it for free. We customized AT to not just be rogue wizard. it was for arcane. Theres nothing "unfair" about it. Warlocks are arcane users. Really now, you want a comparison? AT falls way below the mark of any other prc. They /might/ be appealing if they had some similar perks. Considering you already waste two class slots just qualifying for the prc. sneak dice is situational. They have lowiest tier bab.
If they was designed to be a warlock prc (and they was added as one for our server) then they can have chance of getting eldrtrich adept considering how poor the prc is for a choice.
Fair enough. When you put it that way, I'd agree with you. Sounds like AT needs some love.
Taihou,Aug 5 2016 wrote: There is always option to go either pure fighter or just fighter/WM for Epic Weapon Spec...
With Epic Weapon Focus It will make one end up with huge BAB as well as damage reduction and epic bonus feats for tons of STR or if one wishes - resilience, vitality and defense feats.
Buffing? It is good to have that, but while one buffs, this thing can just strike lucerne hammer into buffing char's brain.
PvE? No buffing needed, this thing is as strong, as if it was cleric with BAB buffs.
Have cleric friend? If friendly cleric comes and buffs this machine of mayhem and destruction, it will cobble-roll everything it sees anywhere on server.
Thats still only essentially a BAB of 33 and +6 dmg. And why cant a cleric take wm or kensei for that matter, get those x4 EDM crits for +64 dmg. There is also an item set that does WM for you.
BAB (Base Attack Bonus) never goes above 30, it defines number of attacks you can get, it can only increase by levels (or Divine Power temporarily). AB (Attack Bonus) can go above it and includes BAB into the calculations, but higher AB does not increase the amount of attacks you can put out.
Just adding this here because it seems to be mixed regularly.
Mr_Otyugh,Aug 5 2016 wrote: BAB (Base Attack Bonus) never goes above 30, it defines number of attacks you can get, it can only increase by levels (or Divine Power temporarily). AB (Attack Bonus) can go above it and includes BAB into the calculations, but higher AB does not increase the amount of attacks you can put out.
Just adding this here because it seems to be mixed regularly.
I realize, but since i wont go into strength details its easier to list it as over max BAB. 40 AB is impressive but its 40AB + gear + atributes + feats. in the fighters base 33 ab + ect. . .
