Terrible Woes Of Playing A Fighter On Sigil

[*Iggwilv]

..how the hell you use warlock buddy >_>, never could figure it out lol.

Press F to open your quick cast window. Click on the little warlock class icon to the right of your invocations to bring up the buddy and click on the different invocations you want active.

[*Strawberry Jam]

I don't know about the warlock buddy either, but I'll take people's word for it.

The 2e kits looks alright, I mean just a skim and they look like some 3.5 type things, cavalier could as well be a mounted pally for example.

Sigil has done a lot to make them interesting I think. Barbarians have totems, dwarven defender is accessible for everyone, mage killer is interesting, there's even samurai classes, slayer of domiel?, and a ton of other things not even including the standards like divine champion and frenzied bezerker.

Okay fighter is still bread and butter but pretige classes are kind of like 3.5's answer to kits I guess. The only thing is that you have to weigh up if the new class is better than epic feats, but champion can help you get them too.

The best thing epic fighter has going for it is the 5 extra epic feats they get, which are general feats, not just combat feats. =)

[*Xndar]

Don't forget to add Gatecrasher to your list SJ...for a small investment of one or two Rogue levels or quite a bit of cross-class skill investment your meatshield gets full BAB advancement and can teleport across the planes!

[*Alersia]

I just made about 20k in an hour and I'm not even epic. Every weapon is either enchanted out the wazoo or has spells on it. I really don't see what you're getting all ruffled about here. How does a caster have better hp and ac when their spells are more or less all capped to the same as gear. Why complain about cross skills when you're getting 30ish fats, just take able learner. I self heal, I self buff, I can cast spells, I have over 300 hp and not even epic, I can make 20k in a few hours, my ac is already skirting on 50, and I'm not even epic. If you're complaining the spells are easier to dispell than true caster, well.... sorry fighters aren't immortal demi gods?

Issue 1: Fighter are the archetype of frontline fighters or so called "tanks". However, at our server they take more damage then any cleric, wizard, sorcerer or warlock. Thanks to 50% concealment, 30 DR and crit immunity.

Issue 2: As I already pointed out Fighters lack options beside "attack button". Melees are boring to play.

Oh yeah warlocks have some nice things, like infinite invocations wow. I notice with a tower shield most can't scratch me because of that 60% concealment tho.

Should only work for ranged attacks.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Oh yeah warlocks have some nice things, like infinite invocations wow. I notice with a tower shield most can't scratch me because of that 60% concealment tho.

Should only work for ranged attacks.

It does work against ranged touch attacks too, now I'm not saying it should, just that it does currently.

[*Alersia]

that also makes sense I think.

[*Strawberry Jam]

Don't forget to add Gatecrasher to your list SJ...for a small investment of one or two Rogue levels or quite a bit of cross-class skill investment your meatshield gets full BAB advancement and can teleport across the planes!

That's a good point, I'm sure there are a bunch I'm missing that spice things up a lot. On the other hand I spoke to a player about Gatecrasher a few months ago when I was first starting out. They kind of summed it up as when you can go anywhere in the planes at any time it's not that special.

Issue 1: Fighter are the archetype of frontline fighters or so called "tanks". However, at our server they take more damage then any cleric, wizard, sorcerer or warlock. Thanks to 50% concealment, 30 DR and crit immunity.

They can get much of that too, epic DR stacks with dwarven defender and barbarian dr. That's like 15 to 20 undispellable persistent cast damage reduction. Defender is immune to flanking and you can get stone body or undead form either from spell or a template.

Just got a +5 clock of fortification, so that's another persistent level 18 cleric spell or two that can't be dispelled. Yippie =)

As Mr O said, it's 60% concealment against all ranged, except for aoe. Somehow I can still make tumble rolls in full plate and tower shield too, shame Obsidian disabled full plate evasion, but hey can't have everything

[*Godolia il Magus]

Issue 2: As I already pointed out Fighters lack options beside "attack button". Melees are boring to play.

PnP is just the same, if not worse.

Here are the options a player's fighter has got

1 - DM: "Enemies are about. What do you do?"; Player: "Attack!"
2 - Comrade: "I'm under attack! Help me"; Player: "Attack!"
3 - Player: "I'm almost dying, cleric cure me!"
4 - Player: "I need to be stronger! Wizard, enchant me!"
5 - Player: "I need to get that door open and I can't bash it, it's too strong. Thief, unlock it!"
6 - Player: "I need divine powers to vanquish evil before me, but I'm not a holy moly. Paladin, go go go!"
7 - Player: "Enemies are after us, and I can either sacrifice myself to let you run or find a diversive. Bard, distract them with your songs while we all flee!!!"

Etc. etc.
In the mean time that lasts 10 levels, every other player gets their own reward and satisfaction. After that, mr. Fighter becomes ballast and can be easily used to slow down hitpoints-cows while others do the real job.

There's no need to say a fighter's always relying on others to do everything else that's not attacking, drinking potions and similar things, it's clear as the morning sun. :D

[*Strawberry Jam]

On Sigil it's a lil different. Sigil is a high magic server, and the difference with high magic and low magic is that magic items and spells are freely available to everyone.

My fighter starts with casting protection from evil casts bless, casts aid, drinks a few potions, then finds a monster and casts dominate monster on it. Then I charge in and switch between power attack and expertise. When things get hairy I use an invisibility potion and then a few healing kits, or maybe a potion of restoration. Then I keep fighting, and let my regen heal me when it's over. There's even a staff I can buy that lets me summon monsters. ^^;

No magic class used at all, that's just plain simple fighter.

Is it fun? Not really

Will giving me more attacks and immunities make it even easier? hehe yeah duh

Will it make it more fun to do additional attacks and get immunities? not really

[*Whitefly]

That is one way to play them, I guess.  Personally, I see Warlocks as the single greatest AoE Damage dealers.  Sure, doing ~100 DPR with an Eldritch Blast isn't much compared to some builds that do ~300 DPR to a single target, but with just three enemies a Warlock can Eldritch Chain and be competitive on the DPR.  Get up to six enemies in one place and even if every enemy succeeds at their save you can still get 300+ DPR with an Eldritch Doom.

Things get even more silly with more than 6 enemies.  For testy-reasons on the test-server me and Ariella had to kill a lot of mobs really quickly and ended up with a system where she spawned around 50 endgame mobs on top of a max Eldritch Blast Damage Warlock that could kill all of them with only three Eldritch Dooms.

The highest damage builds do 1,000 damage per round to a single target.

Let's say you go pure warlock and spend all but one of your bonus feats on epic eldritch blast, with the other going to eldritch master:

14d6 class eldritch blast
7d6 epic eldritch blast
* 1.5 eldritch master
=
110 damage per round

You can add another 7 with vitriolic blast. Not sure if that gets multiplied up by eldritch master.

In order to compete with the highest damage builds you need to hit 8-9 enemies, have them all fail the reflex save and none of them may have improved evasion. This is also problematic because there is an inherent benefit in killing enemies over damaging a large group of them. Eldritch chain may be a necessity for high reflex enemies, but it's ultimately quite a lot weaker than eldritch doom, particularly against large groups of enemies because you have to land your touch each time or the chain stops. To make matters worse, high reflex enemies usually have high dexterity, which means they have higher AC against ranged touch attacks.

Basically, other builds can do your job better than you can. It's not completely non-viable to make a high damage warlock, but a warlock aimed at crowd control fills a niche with a sustainability that puts other casters to shame. Being able to CC a big group of enemies allows meleers to lay down a lot of damage safely, which is extremely valuable and I would say it's the primary role of a caster to keep your meleers alive and swinging. If you really want a caster that kills stuff consistently, psion is probably the best bet.