Which Faction Do You Play?

[*Mr_Otyugh]

There's only one thing I really care about: They're ultimately not very fun to play. Anything else is secondary at best. And I'm not going to really find any kind of lore quotes or paraphrases to be acceptable excuse for it either. And don't get me started on the criminals/villains, i've been the most verbose supporter of their rights as well, and will likely continue to be. It's a game, everyone should have fun while getting at it.

It's not something that can be solved by snapping fingers, and it's definitely not solved by trying to justify the effects that make it unfun. Even as a Hardhead, I adapted a policy of positive reinforcement to my Hardheads opposition, at least the ones whom I noticed were feeling OOC intimidated or whom were making genuine RP effort at having mutual fun. Get in touch with the player and make sure they're also having fun. I think the server may need a little more of that.

[*KittyEmpress]

Well the actual lines say that most other factions regaurd them as, and I'll quote "playground bullies" so there you have it. Actual lines also state very clearly that good and evil, right and wrong, this is less important than law vs chaos and evil characters are welcomed into Harmonium just as much. The actual lines also state that they go through eight weeks of indoctrination to dull the mind and learn there is only the Harmonium way and no other options.

Now if you want a faction that actually helps people there is the Bleak Cabal which operates soup kitchens and other services for those in need. But there are quirks to that faction too, such as the gloomy philosophies that nothing really matters.

The fact is that Harmonium has a place in lore and it is not as heroes that save the day, except in their own minds.

On patrol in the Hive, a Harmonium character notes a person being dragged into a dark alley by a few men who look like gangsters.

Oh and specifically the books say in several instances that the Harmonium doesn't really care what happens in the Hive and usually stays away. They focus more on places like the Ladys ward where the rich live.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm looking at 'players guide to the planes' right now, which is the book that mainly detailed the factions, where I see no mention of everyone hating them [though it does mention how the Indeps, Anarchists, and Fated hate them]. It does, however, mention that their primary extraplanar holdout is Arcadia, because it represents the perfect Goodness of Order.

The Harmonium explicitly has its view of Law above all else because they honest to goodness believe that non-lawful goodness does not exist. That only through order can peace and prosperity exist for everyone. That those who are chaotic are inherently also evil, because they keep wars from existing, and ruin peace for everyone.


But they are, at their core, explicitly respectful of Good, as spelled out in Players Guide to the Planes.


So don't try and quote books that don't exist at me, to justify your OOC hate of a type of PC.



Either way, as Otyugh says, I've played a Harmonium before, and it's not fun. Everyone OOCly hates you, and those who don't openly act out just because you say something still talk shit on you behind your back. No one wants to play with Harmonium, except other Harmonium and Mercykillers. Every other faction you can wear your pins openly and rarely will someone call you out on it - but Harmonium? Oh no, you are going to get called out, you stupid lobster.

Usually you'll even get called out for things that someone is making up, as part of their backstory.


Edit: It doesn't matter either way: Simply put, the Harmonium gets a ton of shit, so no one plays it, and those who do quickly become jaded and annoyed by the people who have decided to turn them into their mortal enemies, that they must defy, even if all that is said is 'put that sword away'

[*Strawberry Jam]

Well you could try to look at the book I mentioned before you jump for my throat to defend your theory.

Mr Otyugh I think if you play a faction that is not very fun for you as a player then you should simply reconsider that choice. While by lore a negative attitude to certain factions is understandable. It is like playing the revolutionary league but getting upset that they are unable to organize themselves and overthrow other factions.

I personally believe everyone plays to enjoy themselves but the enjoyment of one faction should not necessarily go above the experience for everyone else. For this I think Taihou has some good points about common sense. But nobody here hates any faction OOC so if you feel the roleplay is getting too personal or uncomfortable you might wish to take a step back.

[*KittyEmpress]

Well you could try to look at the book I mentioned before you jump for my throat to defend your theory.

Mr Otyugh I think if you play a faction that is not very fun for you as a player then you should simply reconsider that choice. While by lore a negative attitude to certain factions is understandable. It is like playing the revolutionary league but getting upset that they are unable to organize themselves and overthrow other factions.

I personally believe everyone plays to enjoy themselves but the enjoyment of one faction should not necessarily go above the experience for everyone else. For this I think Taihou has some good points about common sense. But nobody here hates any faction OOC so if you feel the roleplay is getting too personal or uncomfortable you might wish to take a step back.

You never mentioned a sourcebook by name, you've just said 'well the sourcebooks say', first off.


Second ofall, you literally have OOCly said that you think all guard RP is bad, and that the Harmonium is a dumb faction, and then claimed no one hates them OOCly.

[*Vandole]

I was just looking at the same source-book "A Player's Guide to the Planes" seeing as I'm just getting back into this place, I thought it would be good to do some reading up. Looking over the Harmonium briefly I noticed two things.

https://spillklubben.samfunnet.no/Filer ... planes.pdf

Allies and Enemies. Because of their fierce devotion to order (albeit their order), the Harmonium often works closely with the Guvners and the Mercykillers. Indeed, within Sigil the trio forms the wheels of justice:

The Harmonium makes the arrest, the Guvners conduct the trial, and the Mercykillers carry out
the sentence.

With their unbending attitudes, the Harmonium also has many enemies. Indeps, the
Revolutionary League, and Xaositects all have little patience with the rigid views of the Harmonium.

So being point #1 - The Harmonium, like the many other factions do have clear enemies and allies. And some resistance is obviously natural (and should be expected) . . . (Whether it's proportionate seems to be the issue I am picking up on)

Second.

Benefits. Members of the Harmonium gain benefits from their firm beliefs and fierce dedication to
them. All members of the Harmonium are able to use charm person once per day, regardless of class or level.

Now, I don't know if this kind of ability is actually implemented or granted to harmonium players in game here, but regardless, the ability would denote that the Harmonium would either attempt to be diplomatic and be able to convince at least one person (or arrest) a day to see things their way (without a skill check)... most players should be aware of this before the guards resort to intimidation and force. (As Police officers IRL tend to make you realize quite quickly that co-operation is in your best interest... even if you don't like what's happening... as they simultaneously subdue you.)

I see some parallels with how law-enforcement tends to be treated and work. To be honest, most law-enforcement gets treated quite poorly, despite existing for the good of others, it's part of what make a job like that difficult and taxing.

[*edmaster44]

I just want to say it's just a *** game, like come on....., if some one takes rp oocly. That's just dumb and shouldn't be that way. Honestly if i play a choatic character that is breaking the law and Harmonium pc is on and going to do thier jobs, good on them! Makes rp between law enforcer and law breaker fun, i know it's no fun playing a "cop" i played a Elturian Hellrider on nwn1 and i got a lot of ooc and ic shit. Hence why i'm hesitant in playing one again. For the ooc shitfest, in which i just laugh and go on with my life.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I understand one thing: everyone who has played a Harmonium character are echoing how tedious to play it is. And those who haven't, try to tell otherwise. :P I'm not taking it personally or getting invested in it, I even went as far as to admit that I have had 3 Harmonium characters, I'm quite resolute and capable to handle what it has to offer. I've even acted for several years as a person who primarily handled player issues, for SCoD I might add. And I think it's very short sighted to just try to rub off issues as nothing and blame the people who are trying to fix matters as being unable to handle it. And that's exactly what I am trying to do... fix the issue, by trying to raise awareness and give perspective.

And if that doesn't work, I'm intending to get to the bottom of the reasons why there's a need to be able to be condescending toward them, no matter what.

Oh and I have played a revolutionary league character as well... infact one of my Harmonium characters was an anarchist infiltrator. He had grand goals, which he didn't ever succeed in, and that went just about as planned anyway. I'm not expecting automatic win by any measures. No not even for my mentally ill character who wanted to kill everyone, but was too afraid of people to get to it. Nor my sociopath who was willing to do anything for power and knowledge. Or xaositect whose sole purpose was to make Triads life a bit of a nightmare. I've also played a character who was actually a massive jerk that had no high opinion of anyone and openly challenged everyone in Sigil to a duel, via SIGIS. All of these were somehow magically more publicly accepted even.

This isn't about winning, this is about trying to make the gaming environment more sustainable to play at for members of one faction, where you don't have to spend 30 minutes to the smallest of non-issues because people are too stubborn. Criminal characters have been wanting a sanctuary where laws are barely observed, I agree with those, it's a great idea I've even shared ideas on those in the past. In return I think it's only fair that there are areas where laws are being observed and agreed upon to be observed... and the most public locations of middle wage denizens would definitely be among some the most frequented by any sort of lawful organizations. This is also just generally practical sense, because the most public places will be having witnesses to all illegal activity that then may pass it to Harmonium, and it'd still become an issue even if Harmonium character wasnt' around at the time. It's just a piss poor idea to commit crimes infront witnesses that you don't try to silence. Harmoniums presence isn't required to make it a poor idea.

[*Ceremorph]

Don't want to get pulled too far into this, but...

The leadership of the Harmonium is generally LG and heavy on paladins (for example, the Factol is a paladin). Again, this is the public face of the faction.

But in the Factol's Manifesto, it is mentioned (somewhere) that there are those within the faction who are corrupt, particularly where indeps are concerned. This I think becomes the overriding view here, simply because the Indep point of view is endemic among our PCs. But considering that the vast majority of Sigil's inhabitants are not actually card-carrying members of the factions, that public face is going to be the one most accepted by the common person on the street.

Possibly the closest parallel in fiction I can think of is the Children of the Light in Wheel of Time. Their leader, Pedron Niall, is shown to be a good person, only misguided as to the supposed "evil" of the Aes Sedai. Only problem is, beneath him are people simply indoctrinated so deeply into the stated beliefs of the order that it turns into a "nothing is too extreme where destroying this evil is concerned" situation. And of course there are those who see the jackbooted thug path as the best way to get everyone thinking the same way as they do, while being infiltrated by actual Darkfriends leads members of this supposedly "good" group doing unabashedly evil things.

[*Altair]

Mander I love that picture. xD

[*Mick64]

One thing to remember, which at this point I'm not sure if it's an OOC misunderstanding or IC but... the Harmonium are -not- city guards. Sure, they often fill the function that city guards might fill in other settings, but before being guards they're a multiverse-spawning organization bent on unifying everything under their rule and making everyone adopt their point of view, by force if needed.