Loot Stealing

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I actually do think that the Abyss area consents to some more anti-stealth actions. And that's the Abyss areas with two factions fighting against each other, that's since they are the only areas where monsters are killing each other and thus providing loot without anything needing done. Meaning theoretically anyone able to hide or invisible themselves is just able to get high end loot with no effort. That doesn't mean that it needs to be the most powerful critters that are "anti-stealth", I'd actually pick some of the weakest of the mob to be that. Strong enough to deter low level people from sneaking in, not strong enough to deter high level characters to whom the area is aimed at anyway.

[*Strawberry Jam]

There's a problem with anti-invis that some higher end things are spoofed with regular old invisibility. Magical concealment, shifting to planes other than ethereal, mimic hips, supernatural stealth effects. It's bad enough every player pretends they can "see" you when role playing wise you are only a shadow on the ground or the wall.

The character in question said they were bloodcrowing the spoils of war, which actually sounds rather reasonable. They're a level 3 and in danger if they're found out. Yes level 3 is probably too low to survive the abyss so easily. On the other hand lots of the critters already received serious upgrades from their standard values.

Since it seems it was invisibility that was used, going back to spell keys you could implement it that in the abyss you need a level of "research" such as a spellcraft check DC 25 to cast the spell. But as the character was a shadow dragon I wonder if they would be exempt from that since it's a super natural ability.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

It's a mechanical issue as such the solution is better to be mechanical, if see invisibility or spot/listen are enough to spot you and attack you, then roleplaying to be a smoke particles or smoke shouldn't really matter much. Those are non-game mechanical talents which requires consent of both sides to apply.

Also it's a computer game, making comparisons to PnP doesn't really apply well, otherwise you're not going to have fun resting for the next real 8 hours with your character to get spells back :P

[*Strawberry Jam]

It's a mechanical issue as such the solution is better to be mechanical, if see invisibility or spot/listen are enough to spot you and attack you, then roleplaying to be a smoke particles or smoke shouldn't really matter much. Those are non-game mechanical talents which requires consent of both sides to apply.

Also it's a computer game, making comparisons to PnP doesn't really apply well, otherwise you're not going to have fun resting for the next real 8 hours with your character to get spells back :P

That's not entirely consistent. If high level 16-18 acquired powers are easily circumvented then that certainly is a mechanical issue. Whereas only ethereal is made to require true sight.

For the record I do not mind the need for rest to recover spells, of course then also implement fatigue and regular healing and hit point recovery. Implementing pnp to the letter will do more to make fighters less super human.

[*poststructuralism]

This game is easy. It's not hard to get loot at all, unless you're soloing and don't know your way around. A little RP will get you everywhere. I've been playing here since like 2010 and I never once had any trouble. Time, luck, and persistence. I may have been in an epic area way to soon, but that's not the only way to get rich. You can make just as much or more money doing plenty of more appropriate things, I guess, I just happen to get a kick out of hitting the abyss.

[*Strawberry Jam]

It's true. You can get around 200 gold from the talk and fetch quests in the bazaar, I think 100 from the spirit, 300 for each the hag and mind flayer undersigil quests, total 400 for the keg quest in the hive, I think a few hundred for the flowers and critter in the bedroom quests in clerk ward, and some for the husband quest in lady's ward. Then 1000 for the salt plane quest.

That's like 3000 per server reset for some fairly easy low level quests, most without any killing or danger. That's not particularly hard ... and yeah, as a mage, those bats that hit for 1 damage each per round, and you only have 4 hp, totally a breeze.

[*poststructuralism]

*points to avatar* hehe

[*Godolia il Magus]

It's not a problem. What is on anyone else's character sheet, or in their inventory, is not, and never will be, your problem. It's not a problem for balance because nothing is balanced to account for rebuilds, for getting something beyond your power from a buddy, or for the occasional really nice random drop. You aren't competing with other players.

I said it's a problem, not specifically my personal problem.
In any persistent world based on roleplay, balancing every aspect is still required, because you can either see players going through level 1 to 20, with fabulous things they've never put effort into, suddenly acting as they were some kind of celebrity in a server; and this is one point. There are others, like having players that get easily bored because they have everything from the start, and then they quit or do silly things out of boredom. Even under a simple roleplay-wise perspective, having low level characters with high-potential stuff can be a problem for the dm trying to give a meaningful challenge without going crazy.

I'm not saying this because I need to compete with anyone, if that's what you have drawn from my script you are heavily mistaken.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

This topic isn't about merchanting. There's two topics about it already, but one would be sufficient since the both were done almost same time and handled same topic anyway. So no... the quantity of topics isn't telling much, it's the same topic spilling over mostly by same few people around the same time. :P

As for risks. Here's a thought process for you to think about risks involved at ECL 3: If you die, you lose 50 gp. And 1% of your total experience, but you can't lose a level this way or go below the experience quantity qualifying you to your current level. That's the absolute "worst" that can happen to you via the automatic mechanics. But you can get the highest tier loot items in contrast... so lets talk about risk reward ratio here. Because I'm not seeing how they go one on one in that picture, as the rewards are significantly higher than the rewards are. And they aren't even fighting there. Yet ironically the characters that are sufficiently leveled and are actually fighting are losing more. So no... I don't think it's a good idea to have clearly under leveled people take benefits of that.

[*poststructuralism]

This topic isn't about merchanting. There's two topics about it already, but one would be sufficient since the both were done almost same time and handled same topic anyway. So no... the quantity of topics isn't telling much, it's the same topic spilling over mostly by same few people around the same time. :P

As for risks. Here's a thought process for you to think about risks involved at ECL 3: If you die, you lose 50 gp. And 1% of your total experience, but you can't lose a level this way or go below the experience quantity qualifying you to your current level. That's the absolute "worst" that can happen to you via the automatic mechanics. But you can get the highest tier loot items in contrast... so lets talk about risk reward ratio here. Because I'm not seeing how they go one on one in that picture, as the rewards are significantly higher than the rewards are. And they aren't even fighting there. Yet ironically the characters that are sufficiently leveled and are actually fighting are losing more. So no... I don't think it's a good idea to have clearly under leveled people take benefits of that.

To be fair, ECL 6. Shadow dragons have a level adjustment +3.

If you get the poison aura, you're slowed and diseased and take ability damage. If you go near a horned devil (or one comes near you) you're frightened and lose control of your character for almost a full minute. Those are about as inconvenient as the penalties for dying at high levels where you can make the money back from dying/are full level and it doesn't matter if you lose XP in a similar amount of time.

There are no real consequences for dying in the first place, here, IMO