Good Aligned Characters

[*Strawberry Jam]

I don't like the layback attitude some good have against fiends. I play an Eladrin, she saw an animazu with human slave that cut off it's flesh and offered it to her what was logical course of action? A kick in the face of course. She pretty much threatens every evil outsider she sees, of course people don't take to kindly ooc and icly i have gotten things like " Hey i'm all friendly here"
i find the above statement said about most "good" true and same logic can be applied to evil fiends too. I want to see a freaking celestial and fiend go wreastle each other at khaz not try to take peace.

Because they know there's no pvp and zero repercussions. Some characters will do everything they can to obnoxiously flaunt how """evil""" they are and laugh, rubbing it in your face knowing there's nothing you can do. The only real option is to ignore them cos they're trolling.

Other places have different rules, like pvp but actions have consequences, or if a character crosses the line they implicitly consented to pvp which means to avoid pvp you need to rp a coward.

[*Tingly]

Though I haven't encountered it here yet, part of my frustration with playing good PCs in environments like a NWN2 server is that both DMs and players alike seem really opposed to good guys who are proactive.

If good guys start to close a trap on an evil character or group - npc or pc- then my experience has often been that the DMs will pull out fiat to help evil dodge any and all consequences. If that doesn't happen, and the good guys are after an evil PC, then often their player will just vanish until you go away or they'll start pretending you don't exist.

It's not always like that, of course, but I couldn't blame anyone who decided it's not worth the aggravation.

[*rapsam2003]

Sorry, but no.  It doesn't work that way.  And more than anything else, this is the kind of argument that really wrecks the illusion of the grimy, dark city that Sigil is supposed to be.  The people who live there should know better than to think that any old fiend could just one day be Good.  Instead, they should be terrified of even speaking that thought out loud lest one overhear and rip their throat out so they never speak it again.

Anyone who thinks you can redeem fiends doesn't understand how Planar creatures actually work. You can RP any way you want, but that doesn't mean it's good RP that makes sense according to lore.

She pretty much threatens every evil outsider she sees, of course people don't take to kindly ooc and icly i have gotten things like " Hey i'm all friendly here"

What I find ironic is when 1) people don't keep it IC (being insulting in PMs isn't IC, people!) AND 2) that people can't figure out a fiend insulting a deva IS IC. An Eladrin doing so can be IC too, depending.

Though I haven't encountered it here yet, part of my frustration with playing good PCs in environments like a NWN2 server is that both DMs and players alike seem really opposed to good guys who are proactive.

Um, it's actually the opposite usually.

Honestly, the problem tends to be, people think good should always win. Well, it doesn't work that way. People think that the evil PC should have an ending like some Disney villain. Which means the villain dies, and that's ridiculous. Killing a PC because they're evil is bullsh*t.

[*Tingly]

It's possible to not completely no-sell all efforts good PCs make without being unfair to evil players. You're bringing up that it's unrealistic for good to always win, but the kind of thing I'm talking about is usually on the level of "Canonically incorruptible Lawful Good judge throws out all evidence because it isn't modern forensic stuff that would be literally impossible to attain and acquits all evils".

I imagine that most people who've played one for very long and tried to be proactive have caught flak for not always having the kid gloves on. I'm sure that kind of thing does happen both ways, of course, but it's what my experiences have reflected.

[*rapsam2003]

It's possible to not completely no-sell all efforts good PCs make without being unfair to evil players. You're bringing up that it's unrealistic for good to always win, but the kind of thing I'm talking about is usually on the level of "Canonically incorruptible Lawful Good judge throws out all evidence because it isn't modern forensic stuff that would be literally impossible to attain and acquits all evils".

:blink:

I really feel sorry for any EM/DM who does this, because it's complete BS...

It's one thing to ensure the evil PC doesn't end up dead. (Imho, it should be give and take, where no one gets what they want completely.) But it's another thing to be like, "In (this fantasy) instance, the evidence is bad!".

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I think that all sums up to: people dislike losing. Be they good or evil.

And actually I think even that is pedantically speaking incorrect, people don't dislike losing per say. They dislike seeing all their efforts go down the drain, if they've spent hours and hours into a plot with absolutely no results, that's what's getting to them, not the fact that they lost.

It's kind of same in all "perma-death" conditions, people might be more willing to sacrifice characters ^{(or in this context: dozens to hundreds of hours of time/story investment)}, but they for real don't want to do that just spontaneously because some guy toggled mechanical hostile on them and beated them down. That's not the level of satisfactory story anyone wants out of it. As a part of partially scripted epic event? Sure, why not, you'll get that name written down to a major event, that lowers the barrier when people are inclined to sacrifice a character for it.

PS. Also yes, good aligned do get a load of flak. Try playing a paladin whom actually has standards and not get called worse than 80% of the fiends around you. It gets quite amusing, real quick. :P

[*Strawberry Jam]

It's not always like that, of course, but I couldn't blame anyone who decided it's not worth the aggravation.

I think that's the crux of the issue really. Games are played for fun not aggravation, some might have their priorities wrong, but most ppl will stop bothering when something is supposed to be fun gets made unfun.

The disadvantage is always automatically on the one that can get caught, whether you're on the good or evil side. The engine gives us super human powers that even lets us see thru walls. If players are punished for adding conflict they'll stop doing it or stop playing something that isn't fun.

[*Taihou]

Problem is, that "Good" and "evil" are interpreted by different people differently.

To me what matters more is moral standards of different characters and how much they differ from such of my own characters.

How I do, I put the alignment, that I expect to be given to any particular character by some "modern spherical average DnD player (not I!) in vacuum".

And I would strongly discourage all kinds of IC conversations like "Hey mister, are you evil, like me?"

[*Mick64]

Eh, D&D in general, and even moreso Planescape are worlds where Moral Realism is not only a certain fact, but very easy to prove. Good and Evil are cosmic forces, which can interact with the world in very tangible ways. It's a very different take on morality, which a lot of people have a hard time to grasp (I wouldn't say it makes for very interesting moral conflicts, but it's not illogical as some people put it).

In a world like Planescape, saying "I'm Good" or "Hey, are you Chaotic?" actually make sense.

[*Mick64]

You need only look at good aligned fey out of the many examples. They tend to occupy NG and CG alignments while they are often described as selfish, uncaring, unhelpful, capricious, and dishonest. The d&d lore often describes situations that end very badly for humanoids resulting in death for stupid things like the miller's daughter didn't come to play as promised.

Source? Those sound a lot more like evil fey to me. And while Good fey aren't necessarily safe, their danger to mortals come more to them not understanding how mortals work, rather then any malicious intent. What do you mean mortals die if they dance for 5 days straight?