Doppelganger Copying Others Appearance

*Shadowcryer
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Shadowcryer »


Mr_Otyugh,Aug 6 2016 wrote: I'm not going to lie, it's mechanically very well made feature. But I don't think it's a feature that's going to make better roleplay at large. Only lazier and more prone to drama, and I don't think it's a question of if, just when.
Actually, copying armor maually is a hard job to do, and not entirely possible to have exactly the same one, since you can't just open editor and see the color numbers.

Even more, Doppelgangers do not have some overpowered class or racial abilities, it is even hard to build something decent on them (Without being Theurge or Sacred Fist, I mean), and having a bit of flavour would not hurt them at all.
*Itikar
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Itikar »


Hmm, Ember, let's avoid jests and let's focus on what matters, come on. :P

Here the point is not whether doppelgangers are a bad race because of their abilities. With this new GUI anybody with change self at will has the same damaging potential. I.e. succubi, brachina, etc.

Nor is whether somebody with change self should be able to emulate somebody's else. It is something generally included in that ability. And having a pair of screenshots really does not make copying appearances so difficult in any case.

The point here, in my humble opinion, is whether it should be so easy for a doppelganger to copy another character.

And there are plenty of reasons to argue it should not.

-First and foremost the lore explicitly says that a) they study their victims for a long time b) they are very accurate in portraying them (90-95%, which anyway leads them to be discovered relatively soon). Now this is clearly not compatible with the zap-metamorphosis. Because to be accurate in emulating someone else you need to study them for a while.

-Second, as Mr O pointed out, it encourages a lazy and griefing playstyle. In my opinion this also diverts the players from what I see as the most rewarding and stimulating way to play such a race. Which is essentially not by copying someone but by creating a series of alternate identities. If somebody is familiar with early XX century literature I can point out a doppelganger as an exquisite way to portray the idea of the "masks" found for example in the Italian writer Luigi Pirandello, such as this or this novel.

-Third, if somebody has not the time to stay there and tailor their fake appearances, again, in my opinion, then they have probably chosen the wrong race to play. Because, if a race is about taking alternative identities, employing a good amount of time in perfecting them is really the first thing that race is expected to do. And also what actually should attract players to it.

And the first point would probably be enough just alone.
*KingLeoric
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *KingLeoric »


Ok close the topic. Having it is pointless.
*WhenWizardsWar
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *WhenWizardsWar »


They are infiltrators and copy cats, thats what they do.

I see where people are complaining about the instant copy ability.

If they are going to copy someones physical apperance that shouldnt be disalowed by anymeans but the dopp should have to make the cloths themselves.

But if everyones main concern is the dopp copying someone else's apperance and trying to pose as the very person they copy, player or other wise...

Well if thats everyones problem them just delete the race period as that's what dopps do.

They copy and imitate and infiltrate...

If the pcs are bitching because a dopp copied them and caused crap, then just delete the doppelgangers because if you put so many restrictions on a race doing what its suppose to do you might as well just delete that race.
*Itikar
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Itikar »


In fifth grade: they are *not* supposed to be *only* copycats.

That is a very reductive way to see the race.

Are succubi supposed to copycat? No, they are not.

They *can* if they want, and so do doppelgangers.
*MimiFearthegn
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *MimiFearthegn »


We are removing the auto-copier function for PCs. I'd go into more depth as to why, but everyone else has covered it so beautifully it seems redundant. :D

Since it came up - dopplegangers are not, to my knowledge, in danger, but if you do decide you want to copy a PC in order to get them into serious trouble, make sure its alright with the other player beforehand. This goes for all shapechanging races.
*cryptc
Posts: 866
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *cryptc »


KingLeoric,Aug 6 2016 wrote: That thing could affect something if it copied a PC name. But it does not do that so it is an entirely time saving. I doubt that somehow it can create the whole drama. And just spending hours of your time to make it look atleast decent (so it wont be looking silly IC, may require an hour or even more). Again, if it gets intentionally abused there is always an option to take care of that player especially.

For example, you may just add a space after someones account name, create a PC with exactly the same name and start sending bad tells. But we are not limiting players and tying CD-keys to a single account because of possible abuse, right? The same thing here. Game has alot of things that can be exploited. That one can hardly be, and even if someone manages doing that, I do not think that only because of that other players should have fun spending the entire day on editing their armor parts. You may take care about the player instead.
There's a difference between doing a very planned impersonation where you make similar accountname and character name and when using a race that has it as a feature. The first is obviously something you know isn't good, but the second looks like it's a feature working as intended, and encourages such behaviour.
*Alersia
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *Alersia »


What exactly is being copied? racial appearance? skin, head and colors? and the gear appearance?
*KingLeoric
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *KingLeoric »


Yes, Alersia. Armor copy is going away because... just because.
*wmw12
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am

Posted by *wmw12 »


What about creating a script that when someone clicks on your character to copy it, a message screen pops up for the character being copied asking them to either accept or decline. This way it is actually fair? I can't script so I have no idea how to do that. But I'm thinking about how the leashes on Haven work, so maybe use a similar script.

And if I'm reading correctly, the armor copy is being removed so that you actually have to do something for yourself and actually work at making the character. If it is upsetting to you then you should make the gear before you try to copy someone's character.
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