Dialog Skills

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Hard set rule: Sense motive = counter. :P there's no sense motive in NWN 2, so there's no hard set rule either in NWN 2.

That's pretty much it all in nutshell.

[*deusex2]

Just use commonsense, if a dice roll is requested you can decline it like you can PVP no one can force you to do something that your character would not do or believe in with a dice roll......

It's fun when people oblige but it's harassment if the initiator insists, which is what needs to be remembered here. 

Also dice rolls are not meant to be player to player is supposed to be a PNP mechanic that is monitored by a DM to arbitrate.

bluff - why lie truth is more disturbing, why lie its work, truth is only thing meaningful lies just mean people are unable to embrace truth or just stupid.

Tell that to a character who wants to get you into a harmonium hq for questioning and can see your name above your char's head.

Thing is-sometimes it's just impossible to wiessel out of a situation without of a roll and since sometimes you're being given a choice "roll, or I'm not buying it" it's not always possible to decline a roll request.

Harassment or not-players are using it quite often for exact same reason mentioned by DarkLeaf.

------------

On a side note-bonus saves from a spellcraft skill are vs spells only ;) So it helfs wizard to calculate a blast radius of a fireball flying towards him, so that he can move to safety, but it isn't going to help him to avoid a spiked trap or a bard's song(unless it's a spell-like ability).

[*Zilvai]

If you need a roll to weasel out a situation I would say that you already failed. :P Roll or not, you should have used them before and not as a last resort imo. (or no rolls at all)

[*Tildryn]

Just use commonsense, if a dice roll is requested you can decline it like you can PVP no one can force you to do something that your character would not do or believe in with a dice roll......

It's fun when people oblige but it's harassment if the initiator insists, which is what needs to be remembered here. 

Also dice rolls are not meant to be player to player is supposed to be a PNP mechanic that is monitored by a DM to arbitrate.

bluff - why lie truth is more disturbing, why lie its work, truth is only thing meaningful lies just mean people are unable to embrace truth or just stupid.

Tell that to a character who wants to get you into a harmonium hq for questioning and can see your name above your char's head.

Thing is-sometimes it's just impossible to wiessel out of a situation without of a roll and since sometimes you're being given a choice "roll, or I'm not buying it" it's not always possible to decline a roll request.

Harassment or not-players are using it quite often for exact same reason mentioned by DarkLeaf.

------------

On a side note-bonus saves from a spellcraft skill are vs spells only ;) So it helfs wizard to calculate a blast radius of a fireball flying towards him, so that he can move to safety, but it isn't going to help him to avoid a spiked trap or a bard's song(unless it's a spell-like ability).

You can always deny a roll request. Do not presume to think you have the authority to demand it from people.

[*deusex2]

Just use commonsense, if a dice roll is requested you can decline it like you can PVP no one can force you to do something that your character would not do or believe in with a dice roll......

It's fun when people oblige but it's harassment if the initiator insists, which is what needs to be remembered here. 

Also dice rolls are not meant to be player to player is supposed to be a PNP mechanic that is monitored by a DM to arbitrate.

bluff - why lie truth is more disturbing, why lie its work, truth is only thing meaningful lies just mean people are unable to embrace truth or just stupid.

Tell that to a character who wants to get you into a harmonium hq for questioning and can see your name above your char's head.

Thing is-sometimes it's just impossible to wiessel out of a situation without of a roll and since sometimes you're being given a choice "roll, or I'm not buying it" it's not always possible to decline a roll request.

Harassment or not-players are using it quite often for exact same reason mentioned by DarkLeaf.

------------

On a side note-bonus saves from a spellcraft skill are vs spells only ;) So it helfs wizard to calculate a blast radius of a fireball flying towards him, so that he can move to safety, but it isn't going to help him to avoid a spiked trap or a bard's song(unless it's a spell-like ability).

You can always deny a roll request. Do not presume to think you have the authority to demand it from people.

You're missing the point-sometimes people are behaving like "roll or else..." And in cases like that there is little to no way out of it, since it's either a roll or an unwanted, by your char, course of action.

[*DarkLeaf]

It's fun when people oblige but it's harassment if the initiator insists, which is what needs to be remembered here. 

Sort of like saying, "Hey Lets play Chess, but all of my pieces move the same way that the Queen does cause I dont like the having to figure out the way that the other pieces move. Oh Look! I win! >.<" :rolleyes:


Good to know that i dont have to act scared any more of the person that i am not really when they roll a high intimidate. ;)

If you need a roll to weasel out a situation I would say that you already failed. :P Roll or not, you should have used them before and not as a last resort imo. (or no rolls at all)

This i agree with. You need to roll before its a last resort. The problem is people dont put the rp into it after they roll.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

My personal opinion about lying in character... roleplay, roleplay and roleplay. Also bluff, diplomacy and intimidation does not remove freedom of choice from a character, it is an talent of emphasis and convincingness, not a magical form of mind control.

Also politicians ways of avoiding answering works very well :P just say yes, no, maybe and never same time in long sentence.

[*Lost and not Found]

You're missing the point-sometimes people are behaving like "roll or else..." And in cases like that there is little to no way out of it, since it's either a roll or an unwanted, by your char, course of action.

There is always room to wiggle. Which usually makes those bad roll-players rather annoyed, and start to make remarks on the person until finally sending off their complaints to the staff. :rolleyes:

The given example is not very specific, but for the sake of an argument let us presume that the Harmonium member has asked for a character's name at a risk off being taken into custody and interrogation. Since the character obviously said a name that did not match to the one written on the character creation screen, the Hardhead is asking for a roll of bluff.

The first thing to determine is to find if the Harhead has any "IN CHARACTER" reason to suspect the name to be a lie in the first place. This can be done by asking the following question: ///// Do you have any "IN CHARACTER" reason to suspect the given name as a lie?

Depending on the Hardhead's reply, we can ask further questions to ensure that the Hardhead is not metagaming. For exmaple, if the Hardhead heard your real name from person X, you can contact person X to verify where he or she heard your character's real name, thus link by link built a chain of interactions from the Hardhead to your character telling his or her name to person C. In a case where you cannot contact a person, you can suggest pausing the RP untill you've managed to chase down all the links of the chain.

If it in turn becomes evident that the Hardhead is metagaming, you can start a discussion about the nature and downfalls of role-playing related to it. It is important to give emphasis on why metagaming is a bad thing, while not making the Hardhead feel like the worst scum on the face of the earth. The best thing to do is just drop the whole situation there are give it a new try some other day, a smiling face does no harm.

Naturally, in a case where the roll request is not originating from metagaming, making the roll would feel appropriate to me, however, I will discuss this in greater detail later part of this post.

But in a situation where the Hardhead continues to insist on either making the roll or being forcefully 'pacified', remind them on the server's PvP rules. All PvP requires a consent, if they try to argue that not rolling the dice is giving them the consent, they are just wrong. As a reply, you could write the following message: //// I WILL NOT GRANT YOU CONSENT FOR PVP. - and take a screen shot of it with the |Prt Sc| button on your keyboard, take another screenshot if they attack you, and a third one at the end of the combat.

I would also like to add how you can be a 'smartass' with the "roll or else..." demands. My personal opinion is that those are a sign of really poor conditioning and as such, the Hardhead is simply asking you to either roll a dice or else 'the else' happens. Thus, the actual roll of your dice does not matter one bit as the action of rolling it counters automatically 'the else'. Don't you think it is rather dodgy for the Hardhead to make a roll of dice of his own, after presenting such conditions and especially when the conditions are already met? :lol:

However, I am not entirely against the use of rolls as one of the supporting pillars of role-playing. There are bad roll-players, but there are also good roll-players. The problem is that being a good roll-player requires the player to be aware of both PnP and NWN2 game mechanics and preferably has that little bit of Dungeon Master's perspective when handling things. I could go into lengthy descriptions on what excatly makes up both good and bad roll-players, but I believe it is easiest to spot the differences through these two examples:

Hardhead: Stop, you thief!

Player: What? You got the wrong body, sir, the thief ran that way.

Hardhead: //// roll bluff or be arrested.

Player: [Rolls bluff: 5]

Hardhead: [Rolls spot: 53] //// Time to die. :unsure:
 

Hardhead: Stop, you thief!

Player: What? You got the wrong body, sir, the thief ran that way.

Hardhead: //// Say, what is your level?

Player: //// I just started, level one, +2 from the level adjustment.

Hardhead: [ The hardhead is thinking: "Okay, the maximum base bluff score he can have is 4. Thus, with a DC of 12, he should have roughly 60% chance of a success if with the base skill of 4, and 40% if with base skill of 0. I think it sounds fair.]

Hardhead: //// Could you roll your bluff skill against a DC of 12, please. If you succeed, I'll run into the direction you pointed, if you fail, I'll arrest you, sounds okay?

Player: //// Sure. [Rolls bluff: 5]

Hardhead: Hah, you think I was born yesterday, you are under arrest!
 

The fact is that good roll-playing will considerably level down the playing field in a setting where the players have massive level differences. In addition players would not have to go through industrial grinding to reach a 'manageable' character level. However, it can be tricky trying to determine the 'fair' difficulty check. Bluff was an easy example, since we have no sense motive, but what of intimidation for example? Should it be the stock formula from d20 SRD or should I add some negative modifiers to it?
And we have to face to fact that some people do not like that their invested skill points "dwarfed" or made "redundant".

As a something of a conclusion, I would still avoid throwing those dices whenever it's possible. I'd rather see you all role-play, role-play, role-play, as Mr. O said before me.




P.S. Being concordant can avoid creation of troubles and issues, but to avoid being treated as a rag doll, you need to know how to stand up for yourself and you do not need to take everything thrown at you.

And whatever the situation you face in game, you can always walk away from it, '//// Sorry, I'm just not interested.' - or simply log-off if saying the message doesn't work.

[*TheFrozenWind]

Diplomacy rolls are awesome if you're not good at roleplaying a diplomatic type.

Bluff's good if you're a poor bullshitter.

Intimidation, well, it's kind of silly if you can't roleplay the part.

That's my take on it, as far as rolling goes.

If I think I can't pull off a good bullshitter/silvertongue I try it, see how it goes, if it's just not something I'm good at, well, as opposed to trying to shove roll's down folks throats. I move on to a different character type. Same with the diplomatic, or intimidating type.

As far as intimidation goes, I always consider the PC's known reputation, how he's roleplayed, etc.

There's a reason why Khasef doesn't cross certain lines with certain folk. He's caught wind of their reputation, regardless of whether or not they roll intimidate.

[*Lost and not Found]

Not sure well this would work with others, but with me, you can cover the lack of flamboyant sentances with wide variety of emotes.