Terrible Woes Of Playing A Fighter On Sigil

[*Lucadia]

..Casters dont do enough damage. so they ..get buffs. Thats what they do. They buff

180 damage for 20d6 spell is crap that needs pass a save and then roll all 6's .

as for how much damage a melee can do? iv built stuff that can hit average of 70+ a smack and then suddenly hits for 350 on a critical . and then they dont have to rest. soo..yeah. That argument.

[*Strawberry Jam]

Now with +2 regen and mind immunity, not doing too badly =)

[*Jelkia]

Yeah.. forgot wizards get 1 spell at 1. Guess they'll just have to summon something ta fight for them for free instead. Then at level 3 they can have free fullplate an ah friendly murder buddy! XD

Now.. ah don't get the panderin issue. What of all those things ya listed as 'pandering to melee folk' is inaccessible to casters? They can get all tha same feats an spells cept ah very few that've always been fighter only. So.. they're.. uh.. globally pandering ah guess? So.. not pandering.. at all? Yeah.. not pandering.

And Ah don't know what -all- yer talkin about that folks are wanting? O.o

Think they just usually mention that one set of folks have ah leg up on the other is all. An if non caster folks can just 'buy' their way into being casters.. ah know what they're spendin money on.. But.. what are the casters spending jinx on?

Wait... is there some sorta.. place.. fer casters only.. with hookers an blackjack?! :blink: Mr. Oty... are you behind this? =O

<Edit> Serioiusly dear.. if DC's are an issue. Bring them up where something might be done about it.

[*edmaster44]

I think fighters are fine to be honest, just...a bit bland >_>, Vanilla or in my Case Almond Milk Vanilla. in nwn1 and in some case 2, they are used as the glue, Obtain extra fighter feats to take another Prc like WM being a good example. I mean fighters aren't Wizards or Spellcasters, they are the "Oh shit quick, Slap him with your sword thingy while i prepare a few spells that go boom boom"

[*Strawberry Jam]

Which poor design choice from Obsidian do you mean exactly, Mr O? The devs had some very anti-caster sentiments and I think they changed a few things to "balance" it, including giving the 2 extra attacks and +5 ab.

Panderings, yes. Not inaccessible, but superflous. Here's your class, oh guess what, you've been made semi-redundant in what you might do. The game doesn't penalize me by giving me only 4 hp, the server doesn't penalize me by making me need to rest in non resting areas.

I've not experienced the difficulty of fighter yet. So far my hardest choices:
A) click on power attack
B) click on expertise
C) click on parry and walk away like nothing happened

Like edmaster44 says, it's fine, it's just bland. I could rotate those option all day, I have regen, I don't need rest. If I have a serious problem I can get a nice stack of restoration potions, if my friend is dead, don't worry coin of life makes me a hobby cleric. Just got done with the lowbie quest tour, another 6k with zero risks. =)

[*Godolia il Magus]

The reason why it's good to have so much "pandering" to melee folks is because the alternative is that everyone are casters. Poor design ideas from WotC and Obsidian shouldn't be used as reasoning for not trying to make them better. :P I mean this is a computer game, so designing it for computer environment rather than PnP is pretty much mandatory. It's not a small control group where everyone has their role, it's a public server where every random stranger can pop in and are required to go through the same challenges regardless of what class they may be, so they need to be able to meet the same challenges just the same.

As for the reason why spells haven't been upgraded quite as much... well because they already got all the answers. And they still do get new spells and items every now and then regardless of the gap between casters and non-casters.

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This

There's no need to empower non-casters, but casters must be somewhat brought down to an acceptable level, so that every class has its meaning in a persistent world.

[*rapsam2003]

There's no need to empower non-casters, but casters must be somewhat brought down to an acceptable level, so that every class has its meaning in a persistent world.

The solution to dealing with an "underpowered" class is NOT to bring other class(es) down to said underpowered class's level. That's going to piss off a lot of people and will NOT solve the core issue. The solution is to raise the power of the underpowered class.

[*Godolia il Magus]

There's no need to empower non-casters, but casters must be somewhat brought down to an acceptable level, so that every class has its meaning in a persistent world.

The solution to dealing with an "underpowered" class is NOT to bring other class(es) down to said underpowered class's level. That's going to piss off a lot of people and will NOT solve the core issue. The solution is to raise the power of the underpowered class.

What you're saying is the same exact mistake that Pathfinder did. And despite that, casters still make other non-casters classes obsolete in little time. :lol:

Even just one class that in not so long time can replace any other class, is a damage to diversity and challenge.

I'm not saying to make casters like warriors, I'm saying to make them a little more "mortal" and a little less "Screw you, I can do all the job by myself". This will encourage role-play, both inside and outside the dungeons, and avoid a tendency to rely only on a single-person's wit and skill during a game.

[*rapsam2003]

There's no need to empower non-casters, but casters must be somewhat brought down to an acceptable level, so that every class has its meaning in a persistent world.

The solution to dealing with an "underpowered" class is NOT to bring other class(es) down to said underpowered class's level. That's going to piss off a lot of people and will NOT solve the core issue. The solution is to raise the power of the underpowered class.

What you say is the same exact mistake that Pathfinder did.

Pathfinder's mistake was essentially to buff everything AND give so many choices that it became impossible to balance all of the classes and PrCs. Even to this day, Pathfinder is a mess. Why? Because there's so many choices that there is literally no way to balance it all. Pathfinder took the many choices concept of 3.5E and bumped that idea up to 11.

What should be done is to examine how, for example, 5th Edition views "base Fighters". You really have 1 archetype/kit in 5E that fit the idea of a 3.5E "base fighter", namely the "Champion". http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthre ... e-Champion
The basic idea of a pureclass fighter in 3.5E is that he/she is either the meat shield or the melee damage dealer. The concepts of the 5E Champion archetype could easily be balanced for 3.5E and applied here. This would strengthen the pureclass fighter while also not "debuffing" everyone else.

[*Godolia il Magus]

The basic idea of a pureclass fighter in 3.5E is that he/she is either the meat shield or the melee damage dealer. The concepts of the 5E Champion archetype could easily be balanced for 3.5E and applied here. This would strengthen the pureclass fighter while also not "debuffing" everyone else.

Why doing mere justice to the warriors not to rebalance casters, when you can do both? ;)
Even if you give the warrior some dignity and fun, he will still be the bottom of the heap just in a few more levels. It would be a way more acceptable situation, as I've proposed, but still not enough.