Metagaming

[*Midnight]

I'd prefer to see people with detect undead given a chance to spot a PC undead, not the auto success that they get now. But if it comes down to just removing the spell altogether and having it only effect NPCs that might be the preferable option. As an auto success in flushing out that someone is undead is marginally worse for RP than cutting down options altogether.

I don't think either situation is ideal though so maybe allowing a save (although that won't stop meta gaming as people will still see you roll the save) or some way to block it may be the better option.

Edit:Love on a Wire: No apology needed. I didn't take any offence. :)

[*Sinlinara]

Chatting people up in the Abyss (as you bump into them) is metagaming (especially if theyÂ’re fiends)

Well, I'd fight the fiend PCs instead but that would require consent, which is metagaming. :rolleyes:

(Bad joke, I know. -- I'll just go back to my corner now.)

[*Jelkia]

Just use your better judgements, folks. Nobody is innocent and clear. You don’t like someone’s RP, simply move along and RP with someone else. Don’t get bent all out of shape because someone is using the tools the game affords. Nothing is ever going to be perfect and you’ll never make anyone happy by turning this into a Hard Core RP server by enforcing loads of anti-metagaming rules. Once you start to strip down the abilities and spells for the purist RP’ers, you’ll alienate the casual RPer and suddenly we’re an ‘elitist’ RP server. Those generally lose populations fast.

Yep Rob.. tha pretty well sums up tha discussion.

Metagamins ah thing at different levels an there aint no way ta make everyone happy. Tha folks what do buildin can waste time fixin little junk tha aint really ah problem ta tha server as ah whole.. er those folks complainin can jus get over et an enjoy tha rest ah tha server.

Edit - Nah.. yer right about tha Sin. So much ah stuff could fall under metagamin tha et almost aint worth tryin ta get rid ah et mechanically. As ah player ya jus try not ta be an ass yerself an other folks can take ah little metagamin in stride.

[*Devil's Elysium]

I'd prefer to see people with detect undead given a chance to spot a PC undead, not the auto success that they get now.  But if it comes down to just removing the spell altogether and having it only effect NPCs that might be the preferable option. As an auto success in flushing out that someone is undead is marginally worse for RP than cutting down options altogether.

I don't think either situation is ideal though so maybe allowing a save (although that won't stop meta gaming as people will still see you roll the save) or some way to block it may be the better option.

Keeping Detect Undead in the game will limit options as long as it affects PCs. If you add a save it encourages save stacking, if you add some other form of check, playing a concealed undead PC will hand you the unpleasant ultimatum of "be able to automatically succeed this check or come up with another character idea"--I don't like either of these outcomes.

Adding Nondetection, unless you add it via an equippable item, will still limit options. I think limiting a whole character archetype is far more restrictive than removing a first level spell with a very small amount of external use.

[*Darkrob]

Also remember (for those that seem to have forgotten), telling others what to do in an effort to facilitate your rp is also considered metagaming. You don't like when people ruin your RP, fine, but please don't use your RP to ruin theirs. People have reasons for saying/doing/knowing all sorts of things.

Play nice.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Well that's all nice and all, Darkrob. But in the end of day: what kind of RP is detect undead helping again? Whose RP is it making so much enhanced that it couldn't be achieved by sprinkling holy water or flashing holy symbols on people to test them?

I mean I've always advocated against detect evil because it's equally lazy and terrible spell by design.

[*Love_on_a_Wire]

I do not think detect undead should be removed, it's a legitimate pnp spell that functions in nwn as it does in pnp.  I think maybe some kind of compromise can be reached though, perhaps some kind of counter measure. This from the spell compendium springs to mind.

I do what to clarify that in PnP, 3.5, Detect Undead most certainly does not work how it works in NWN2. In PnP, Detect Undead requires a full three rounds of concentrated focus forward to determine the general location of any undead in a 60 foot cone in front of you, and only then if they are in your line of sight and non-hidden.

In the first round, you can tell that there are undead auras in that cone. In the second round, you can tell how many undead auras are in that cone and the strength of the strongest aura there. In the third round, the relative strength and location of all undead auras in that cone, though if any are out of your line of sight, you only know their general direction.

Only in 1st edition was it an aura. From that point on, it was always a concentrated forward facing spell, either a corridor or a cone, that gave non-exact information and required relative focus.


That being said, if people are that opposed to this favorite homebrew spell being removed, countermeasures are a great alternative. There's dozens. If you want to test whether someone is an undead IC as opposed to OOC, interact with them.

[*Tomekk]

Well that's all nice and all, Darkrob. But in the end of day: what kind of RP is detect undead helping again? Whose RP is it making so much enhanced that it couldn't be achieved by sprinkling holy water or flashing holy symbols on people to test them?

I mean I've always advocated against detect evil because it's equally lazy and terrible spell by design.

Can we also remove Tracking then, its the same exact mechanic? :P

[*phantomhermit]

Depends on your definition of ass. I find many people ooc and ic annoying, but just try my best roll with the punches and not get too angry.

Example: I ask someone for pvp consent. I am already in stealth and in another zone, watched them go through a door. They do not know I am there. I walk through door to find them casting wards that they would not otherwise be casting . . .

So I walk back the way I came. I got a tell quite a bit later. "What happened to the pvp?" I did not reply.

Silence is it's own form of punishment, and giving some people more than just the silent form of contempt is a waste of time.

So as far as the "~we~ do not want you here" . . . not sure who else you are speaking about.


If you get rid of everyone you do not like at some point, you will eventually be all alone.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Well that's all nice and all, Darkrob. But in the end of day: what kind of RP is detect undead helping again? Whose RP is it making so much enhanced that it couldn't be achieved by sprinkling holy water or flashing holy symbols on people to test them?

I mean I've always advocated against detect evil because it's equally lazy and terrible spell by design.

Can we also remove Tracking then, its the same exact mechanic? :P

*shrugs* I'm not opposed. Or could just make these things work only against NPCs and everyone can be happy.