Kaedrin Content Restrictions

[*Strawberry Jam]

I think things should be added if they add something interesting or focus on something that usually isn't a main focus. Despite all the balance "discussions" I think the top strategies and even spells are the ones that shipped with the games.

Rather than looking at a custom prc pack it's probably much easier to find a few things on the srd, dndtools, or the ultimate srd sites. Most of it is internally consistent with other things and designed by professionals that have been at it for decades.

If it's setting specific then it's not hard to change it to fit planescape I think, there are so many planes that there's no lack of potential equivalents.

[*Embersworn]

Hospitalier is very much one of those classes I really don't like because it's just a bunch of numbers.

Duh.

ALL classes are just bunch of numbers and you can be sure that most of players takes them paying a very good attention to if they're worth taking. I don't think it's a very serious concern that the class is attractive. Better attractive and played than underpowered and cluttering class slots unused.

Dervish is a pretty nice class. Unique style, unique Arabic theme. Can fit more than one Prime Material D&D setting and even other Planes. Genies have pseudo-Arabic cultures, too.

[*SyntheticRose]

Plus, it honestly doesn't make sense that one can cast a vocalized spell and be able to do it silently, just because you're "sneaking". No, to me, that requires extra training, which is represented by the "Silent Spell" feat.

It's not that the verbal components are silent, it's that you're already behind them and in place, and hearing it that late doesn't let them avoid being flat-footed.

Additionally, if it's looking at your summon and you're casting Shocking Grasp on it from behind, you deserve the sneak attack dice, without having to use Silent Spell to get it.

A spellwarp sniper prestige class has the ability to qualify ray attacks and to turn area spells into rays to qualify for sneak attack bonus.

Ray spells qualify by default in the same situations in which ranged weapon attacks qualify. You don't need a prestige class to do that. :P

But really, all things aside, if we're going to be allowed to pick and choose parts of Kaedrin's stuff, finally? His spell sneak attack script is one of the first things we should grab.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Actually as far as I can see, it's unlikely anything from the kaedrins will be added unless it's opened up for modifications. The whole "Curious what you'd be interested in" is just that, see what type of features people are interested in, not a promise of implementation.

[*Mausman]

As long as we don't care to take a good look at area's and how the monsters are made incredibly powerful to the extent you can not hope to survive unless you use magical wards (even if you want to go strict melee) a discussion about "balance" imho, is moot and always will be moot.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Balance is always important and should never be disregarded so easily, Mausman. There's much more to the consideration of difficulty than just making a character and expecting to win every fight without error. The moment you disregard balance completely is the moment you'll just start an arms race between even tougher creatures and even tougher builds, and the only things that will in the end suffer are the weakest builds, which is exactly the opposite of what you want.

[*Mausman]

You know me well enough not to disregard balance :)

But you also know I make a fair point. It's not bad to have a character die because you make a choice that is not that "smart".

It is an entirely different aspect, that you can not prevail (even with effort) on your own (during the moments there are no people to group with) to progress a character that has zero acces to magical means of protection. That is what I refer to.

I know Kaedrin's is packed full of OP and should be tweaked to make it fit, but I think there is a topic to discuss before even thinking about Kaedrin, namely what I mention above.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

The matter you are talking about is infact balance, trying to bring the weaker things up to par to the stronger aspects. Which we can all agree is a good thing, but it's also a very convoluted one since if the things you add to weak builds make strong builds cumulatively stronger, then there's no benefit in doing that and it'd just make more sense to tweak the creatures instead. There's many ways to solve every problem, but the most important one is to try to negate the amount of making even more problems when you try to fix one of them.

[*Mausman]

Agreeing!

Which is somewhat difficult for me to form into decent ideas, since I lack mechanical insight up a high level.

My "simple" idea would be to offer area's where RP builds can level decently, perhaps with a bit less chance of "epic" loot (which is reserved for tougher area's with a wee bit of group incentive?)

simply thinking out lout.

[*rapsam2003]

PrCs I would like to see after balance considerations were accounted for would be Dragon Slayer, Hospitaler, Dagerspell Mage, and Storm Singer. Improvements to existing PrCs and classes as well as long as they are not game breaking.

A few points: We have paladins already. If you do Hospitallers, make them feel less like the actual Knights Hospitaller and more like abadass paladin specific-PrC. Honestly, the Holy Liberator class feels a bit more like something that fits Planescape. See "Defenders of the Faith", which is the book that contains both those classes. In the book, Hospitallers do NOT feel any different the their aforementioned historical inspiration.

The Daggerspell Mages (and Shapers) are basically thief/mages. (Shapers are druids/thieves.) And they're Faerun specific, iirc.

Stormsingers...how do we have them influence the weather, on different planes? They come from the book "Frostburn", which is basically looking at classes that are from "Frostfell environs". So...they sing to the elements on the Plane of Fire, for example? And they get burnt to a crisp. lol, don't work well outside of places where there's cold weather.

Dragon Slayer is from the Draconomicon.