Terrible Woes Of Playing A Fighter On Sigil

[*Sunshine]

Building is part of the game and something people enjoy- and why not?.

That the classes are not balanced against each other is no surprise as they are meant to work in a team with each other- remember DnD started as a variation of a miniatures wargame (Chainmail) made by a company that called itseld Tactical Studies Rules- Role playing was just an extra :D..

Characters had to fill in classical roles, just like the members of a squad of soldiers and this was true through most editions. It is not a competetive game but a cooperative game at its core.

[*rapsam2003]

What Ceremorph suggested isn't even that harsh. In fact, it's VERY lax on the whole. There are servers, even today, that have their DMs penalize you for powerbuilding. They will actually delevel your character and not give you the XP back from that Cleric 1 or Shadowdancer 1 level. For example, one still-active server has this rule, to prevent powerbuilding:

– Three By 20
– 3 Levels of Each Class at Level 20 (3b20) Rule: A PC (the build plan) must have 3 levels in every class at level 20 (example of a build's class level distribution at the 20th character level: 17/3 or 14/3/3/ or 11/3/3/3). Prestige classes are included in this rule. So for example, a Rogue 12/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 3 is okay. A Rogue 13/Wizard 5/ Arcane Trickster 2 is not. Failure to observe this rule will result in the de-leveling of your PC to a legal state with NO XP refund!

For the rationale behind why powerbuilding is bad, see this quote from another RP-based server's Rules/FAQ section:

3 - Powergaming is frowned upon.
DnD is a game based on combat and we understand that. Combat is exciting and an integral part of Abyssya. Powergaming (PGing), however, is ignoring all other aspects of the game simply for the sake of combat, loot, and experience points. PGing is an antisocial act and PGers will run past a fellow PC to kill a goblin rather than say "hello." Groups who PG rarely speak with each other, keeping their banter to commands and talk of hunting creatures. Overall, PGing, while not punishable, will cause you to miss most of what makes a roleplaying Persistent World (PW) more than just a game. While you will not be punished for PGing, you may be avoided both by your fellow players and the DMs.

D&D was never intended to be a powerbuild game, despite the unbalanced aspects that allowed it. It was ALWAYS intended to be a Roleplay game, where there is combat.


Fact is, if you want to powerbuild, then play a game with a system that caters to that and that alone, like Diablo 3 maybe. /shrug

[*Vandole]

Sometimes a level or two in shadow dancer make perfect sense. The stealthy rogue that doesn't want to forgo their "anatomy" training, the shadow mage or illusionist that's primarily caster, or the warlock with a shadow fey pact. I would be more concerned in people in full plate and towershield with monkey grip great sword are stealthing freely under your nose.

:wub: Sempai noticed me! But really. I have (in my eyes) more or less valid reasons for creating the build I did. I wasn't intentionally doing any kind of powerbuilding when I created this PC and in-fact planned to take the full SD progression. I have a two level dip in fighter as a pre-requisite for vampire.

-- This post was scrubbed to prevent future metagame --

Umm, you have seen cambion right? - They don't even get PENALTIES for sneaking in full plate so... have at that if you want to talk powerbuilds that stink of gorgonzola - cheese demon.
---

But this thread isn't about my build. Back on Point. - Ceremorph's balancing is to be discussed in more detail.

[*Jelkia]

More power means you kill things quicker for little effort. It also discourages roleplay. That's it. Plain and simple.

Ah guess.. if yer countin sittin an talkin ta folks in town as tha only legitamate RP.

Maybe tha charcater's an adventurer er bandit er jus barmy.. an going out with others er alone an finding stuff ta fight er kill an getting loot is tha character's RP? Maybe that character's good at it?

There's gods who's followers an clerics outta be doing that all tha time. Ah think all tha gods what make up viable RP Stormlords are just that sorta folk. There's Sigil fanctions based on doin that kinda work exactly.

How's it discouraging RP when that's ah character's RP?

Power building don't discourage RP.. that's something ah player does er doesn't do.

[*Godolia il Magus]

How's it discouraging RP when that's ah character's RP?

I wish you encountered a roleplaying Pun Pun(tm) during your game, you would experience so much fun.

"Hey Pun, let's go to the rescue! Our princess needs us!!!"
"Sure, let me prepare my winnin deck..."

1 minute later

"Princess's gonna make us rich, Pun!"
"Yes, we just had to take a deep breath after Dragonlance(tm)'s pantheon died before us"

[*rapsam2003]

More power means you kill things quicker for little effort. It also discourages roleplay. That's it. Plain and simple.

Ah guess.. if yer countin sittin an talkin ta folks in town as tha only legitamate RP.

That's hardly the only RP. There's loads and loads of RP opportunities. Combat is ONE of those opportunities; you just have to take advantage of combat as a RP opportunity. Too many folks just try to cheese it instead of doing so.

Now, please do us all a favor and stop making assumptions that aren't valid to my argument. You keep bringing up all these things which...it's almost like you think I don't know what RP is and is not. I assure you, I know full well what good RP is. I've been playing PnP D&D for years, and I've been playing cRPGs (like NWN2) for over a decade. You don't need to educate me on RP.

Maybe tha charcater's an adventurer an going out with others er alone an finding stuff ta fight an getting loot is tha character's RP? Maybe that character's good at it?

Then justify why you would take Cleric 1 or Shadowdancer 1, specifically for the feats offered or the gear available. I'll wait for your "valid RP reason". Good luck finding one.

There's gods who's followers an clerics outta be doing that all tha time. There's Sigil fanctions based on doin that kinda work exactly.

Yes...and that works fine. If you actually RP it. If you actually treat it more like a D&D adventure, rather than a buildfest that turns into "How can I make this a Diablo-style slaughter?". There literally is no god of combat whose ethos is along the lines of "take 1 level of Cleric to grab divine might, follower of mine". In fact, that's the kind of stupid cheese that is BAD RP even if the Player tries to RP it.

Player 1: "My god said I should become more sneaky! It's in his holy book."
Player 2: "Who is your god?"
Player 1: "Tempus, the god of battle". (See here: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tempus#Dogma )
Player 2: "...um...what?!"

How's it discouraging RP when that's ah character's RP?

Power building don't discourage RP.. folks who don't want ta RP or wont accept other folks RP fer what it is.. discourage RP.

Powerbuilding, by its nature, does NOT encourage RP. This basically means that the net effect is that is actually does discourage RP.

[*Jelkia]

I wish you encountered a roleplaying Pun Pun™ during your game, you would experience so much fun.

What ah'm trying ta say is that power level don't increase er decrease possible RP. That's up ta tha player regardless ah what they're playin.

Played 3.5 campaigns where every player was ah different god controllin different planes an realms. There was plenty ah RP ta be had. Power don't make nor break RP happenin.

[*Taihou]

1) From there: http://sigil-nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Server_Rules

Build Restrictions
In Sigil - City of Doors (SCoD) there is no restrictions on what kind of build you can make, no arbitrary numbers of levels you'd have to pick for overall build. General rule of thumbs to us is that if in build it's not prevented by mechanics then it can be done.

2) RP-wise all that matters is
a) how it looks visually
b) what it does mechanically

Thus it is at mercy of character how to explain what he does, be that casting particular spells or using other abilities.

3)
It is like on this excrept from movie https://youtu.be/7M-oXleCfQk?t=5m12s Ones simply are at their maximum potential like that guy in the middle and others at thheir maximum poteential are like those soldiers, who surrounded him and one can do NOTHING about it. Some simply should take role of a "hero" and other role of "simple man". It simply is so. World, even in computer game is simply totally unfair and unbalanced place just because it is that way. Deal with it!

And no, it does nay discourage RP. Good Hero is what ENCOURAGES RP! Same as a well-played low-born lout.

[*rapsam2003]

3)
It is like on this excrept from movie https://youtu.be/7M-oXleCfQk?t=5m12s Ones simply are at their maximum potential like that guy in the middle and others at thheir maximum poteential are like those soldiers, who surrounded him and one can do NOTHING about it. Some simply should take role of a "hero" and other role of "simple man". It simply is so. World, even in computer game is simply totally unfair and unbalanced place just because it is that way. Deal with it!

The man in that film was not a badass because he just happened to pick up 1 level of a class that didn't even make sense, like 1 level of Shadowdancer. From a real world perspective, training as a thief, when one is a specialized warrior...that doesn't work. You won't be great at either role; you'll be average at both. The hero in that scene spent years training to become that good at combat. He didn't let anything distract him from his goal of having a disciplined mind and body.

[*Taihou]

The man in that film was not a badass because he just happened to pick up 1 level of a class that didn't even make sense, like 1 level of Shadowdancer. From a real world perspective, training as a thief, when one is a specialized warrior...that doesn't work. You won't be great at either role; you'll be average at both. The hero in that scene spent years training to become that good at combat. He didn't let anything distract him from his goal of having a disciplined mind and body.

That is sophistics.

One level of shadowdancer may represent specifically training of someone in one particular aspect of stealth warfare.