Which Faction Do You Play?

[*Mr_Otyugh]

"Weapon that is too large to be put away is an exception to the law" makes absolutely no sense an argument. It's still a weapon, that's the only thing that matters. Otherwise every random person will just take oversized weapons, because "Nyah nyah, I'm an exception by the law, can't touch this!". And again, it's not really the Hardheads problem you chose to take an inconveniently sized weapon, that inconvenient choice was the owners decision from the get go. If the owners of inconveniently sized weapons don't like the idea of Harmonium telling them to put away their weapon, they can either find a way to put it away, unscrew weaponized portion for transportation and screw it on again later, leave it somewhere, get it confiscated or break the law. And it definitely is not OOC for them to do so either, the laws are IC.

To answer the question about what they could do to make them more fun to play I think you can roll with what has been given.

With this do you mean "everything's fine, stop moaning" or "why not go with post-faction war approach"?

[*Strawberry Jam]

Re the debate about weapons it seems some preach stricter weapon controls in such a chaotic and changing place as Sigil than any modern day nation on Earth. Some characters will say if it can be used as a weapon it is a weapon. To even hold a weapon in any sense is a crime. Now you can't hold anything. Reductio ad absurdum.

But you can still summon 10 undead, a few demons, and slit the throat of a slave to drink their blood in public. :blink:

To answer the question about what they could do to make them more fun to play I think you can roll with what has been given.

With this do you mean "everything's fine, stop moaning" or "why not go with post-faction war approach"?

I mean why not use the lore already in place and focus on missions against an npc target instead of a pc population. It makes sense to avoid pc adversaries if you are unable to persuade them and don't want to beat or kill them. Otherwise Sigil isn't a nice place and hostilities between factions isn't anything new, it's expected.

But admittedly the Harmonium really does get one of the better outcomes post faction war. Instead of focusing on pushing the Harmonium way they focus on uniting the upper planes for good. =)

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I've only maintained the opinion of weapons. And not excluded the Harmoniums digression to interpret the possibility of improvised weapons. I'm also fairly sure the Harmonium would be quite pleased about seeing the undead, demons and slaves gone. :P But they take what they can while not being able to write the laws. For the others it's a matter of having assaults, murders etc. outlawed. Slaves are a difficult thing since technically they are a "possession" rather than people, and has its own set of special laws around it.

Besides it's not absurd that wielding weapons would be outlawed, it's a strong pre-emptive attempt to avoid conflict from starting in the first place, it points out "instruments created for fighting aren't required here". What however is absurd is why'd anyone want to hold fairly heavy pieces of equipment on their hands for hours and hours, especially if they have elemental effects constantly radiating from them. Even if they are using their hands mystically to something else at the same time. :P

I mean why not use the lore already in place and focus on missions against an npc target instead of a pc population. It makes sense to avoid pc adversaries if you are unable to persuade them and don't want to beat or kill them. Otherwise Sigil isn't a nice place and hostilities between factions isn't anything new, it's expected.

So practically go grind around the planes as part of RP? :P That's not very exciting, everyone already does that. Or pester DMs to make a never ending invasion in a roleplaying server against NPCs... rather than try to, I don't know... roleplay with other players? I personally think more RP should be orientated toward the other players, in other factions as well. Involving mainly NPCs for RP is fruitless and results are already known.

I'd much rather strive for changing player attitudes so they can actually play together, rather than not. And that includes even in opposition, and no matter which side of law they may be.

[*Strawberry Jam]

Well there are some tricky issues. Like how elemental effects in pen and paper work by speaking commands that turn them on and off. But yes it's weird people carry around big objects for so long, stranger is constantly wearing platemail. Like that npc guard overlooking the whole bazaar, doesn't he ever get armor chafe? :lol:

Well yes, fighting on other planes is all part of the role playing. You could involve other players in that too, or heck just drum up some drama and involve people around you.

For some factions are just going to be more pvp than others and players should not think that pvp is bad or that it isn't good role play. Everyone getting along happily in the melting pot of the multiverse is probably pretty bad role play.

“Sod off, mates I don’t want any trouble ” The Indep’s voice rose."I ain’t done anything wrong “ Quadi backed away from the three Harmonium patrolmen, his hooves clicking nervously against the cobblestones of the all bariaur lowered his head slightly, and the muscles around his neck and shoulders tensed. The lead Hardhead booted, pointing at the bariaur and tapping a comrade's arm “The goat-boy thinks he’s going to charge Can you believe it?” One of the other Hardheads moved forward. “You’re under arrest, goat-boy. Come with us peaceably or-*
"Why am I under arrest?” Quadi cried, taking another step backward. One hoof hit the alley wall, and he knew that the Hardheads had maneuvered him into a dead-end. One of the bashers retreated slightly off into the shadows, his sword glinting in the dark. Quadi‘s shoulder muscles tensed further. “After all,” he stalled for time, ”you don’t even know my name. How can I be under arrest? Where’s your warrant?” The Hardhead‘s lips tightened. “You’re a Free Leaguer, aren’t you? Or is that just a ’scar’ on your scrawny butt?” The leader pointed toward Quadi’s left flank; in the wan street-light the image of a dragon devouring itself was clearly visible, shaved into his coat.
Quadi backed up further, his hocks and rump scraping against the sharp razorvine climbing the wall behind him. “I’m an Indep, yes. But why-” The Harmonium leader suddenly struck Quadi’s face, and the bariaur instinctively reared onto hi hind legs.
‘Because you’re an Indep, that’s why,” the man screamed as the bariaur came back to ground. “Your kind’s got no business here in Sigil ”
One of Quadi’s eyes was fast swelling shut while blood trickled from his nose. His fists clenched as he braced for another blow. One of the other Hardheads closed in on him, but the man merely spoke, his voice a whisper. “We’re getting rid of you weaklings--allof you. We’re tired of you letiing every cross-trading berk and his brother into the Bazaar. You’re under arrest, goat-boy.” Then the basber looked over at the other patrolmen. “Chain him."
Quadi charged. He hadn’t room for any kind of speed, but he butted his head up against the Hardhead‘s chest. He was a young ram and his horns’d barely begun to curl under. Only a week ago, though he’d been at the armorer's, getting silver tips applied to his horns. Now the hardened edges acted as wicked pikes, and one tip cut through the man’s breastplate and punctured a lung. The Hardhead cried out in pain and collapsed, frothy blood curdling from his lips.
The basher who'd struck Quadi lurched forward, pulling his sword out of its sheath. But Quadi was faster and leapt forward. He swung his head down and upward, and both metal-tipped horns found the humanÂ’s soft belly. The Hardhead staggered backward, his hands grasping QuadiÂ’s throat. The pair fell heavily to the ground.
The third Hardhead raced forward, drawing his sword. Just as the young Bariaur freed himself from the dying manÂ’s clutches, he felt the searing pain of cold metal bite into his backbone. The bariaur tried to stumble to his feet, but his hooves failed him. He lay crumpled in a heap, his spine severed. Quadi stared up at the remaining Hardhead and tried to focus his fast-dimming eyes.
“You’ll never break US,” Quadi choked, his body trembling. "Scum... we’d rather die.” The Bariaur's voice faded to nothing, his eyes staring unblinkingly up at his killer.
The Hardhead spit.
"Then die."

Anyone that tries to pull that off, instead of groaning about minor things like a hammer in your hand or merchant blocking the path, and I shall praise them as the champion of role playing =)

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I never said anything about peaceful co-existence, quite the opposite even. Having characters be in opposition shouldn't be an obstacle to make sure the players on both sides are enjoying their time.

[*Strawberry Jam]

I agree but for some reason it's hard to get everyone to agree on what having fun means I guess.

[*Taihou]

Oh really?

(SARCASM ALERT!)
Then lets also tell all wolves to put a protector, rats, Slaads and monks to tie or shackle their hands, mages would mandatorily be chained, tied up and mouth gaged, because those are their weapons... Psions should get a good smash by a club on their head not to think too much... same harsh measures for dragons, treants, mushrooms, etc.

"Goodbye, weapons!" - E. Hemingway.

[*Sinlinara]

In Sigil, this is the law as stated:
Wielding of Weapons in Public
Wielding of weapons in public is defined as displaying a weapon or having it out of its sheathe, holster, or peaceknot in public, even if not in a threatening manner, except for cleaning and maintenance. Officials of the Harmonium are excluded.

My takeaway is this. Harmonium are the only individuals allowed to wield weapons in public. A cager interested in carrying a Halberd around with them had better keep it in their holster, and when a Harmonium official comes up to them and asks them about it they had better cough up a permit. In fact, they probably need a permit just for owning weapons to begin with.

If Mogar the Barbarian is running around carrying a greatsword in his hands and they are not a Harmonium official then they are breaking the law. A generous Hardhead might be inclined to just let them off with a warning and tell them to put it in its sheath or go put it away back home. A less generous Hardhead is perfectly within their authority to fine Mogar. If Mogar continually has summary offenses... Well then Guvners and Mercykillers might end up needing to get involved. ;)

[*Mr_Otyugh]

I understand it's fun to be in the "moral high ground" and make snide remarks at the ones that aren't... it's far less fun to be on the opposite side and listen the snide remarks from players that haven't spent a minute in there. And most people who tend to be in the former group, are hellbent to make sure there's someone they can keep talking down to, but make no effort to make sure they are having fun as well.

[*Neethanial]

Oooh, a book model for shields would be fantastic!!