On my opinion the best solution is to make merchanting easier. I mean it has already been mentioned here and there that it's cumbersome. Sure there will be the nay-sayers that argue there's already massive benefits for merchanting, as it is the most profitable thing to do, which is true. But at the same time, merchants do provide an integral service, so I'm not one to argue. They enable people to do so much more too.
Current chest system is great, but at the same time very time consuming to place down. You need a massive amount of chests for easy categorization for customers, then the chests need to be named for marketing purposes and such, then select bag to put merchant content into etc. Why not instead simplify it by condensing a lot of those features? I have mentioned it in the past too:
Make a new bag, which also creates container, copying the name of the container, and setting the bags contents to be merchant items inside the new container. Practically making it a quick one click job to create a ready to browse chest.
Another aspect is to sell your 'decent' wares for people fairly cheaply. And that means even the lesser merchants. The more competition there is, the better, as that'll keep prices in check. And that may help your new characters too. If they are items even you wouldn't buy, I'd just chuck them to NPC merchant however.
Gear Seems Harder To Get
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*Taihou
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Maybe it is time to RP asking someone for assistance: Some people do nay feel like playing a merchant or their characters as commercial ones, but may do some charity. All one needs to do is to find correct person and come up with IC reasons to ask him for help or some type of agreement (like RP-ing vassal/servant/bodyguard/acolyte/apprentice/familiar/pet/etc for possible benefactor).
As for what Strawberry sayed, well even with 28 AC (that is with +3 Breastplate and +4 Natural AC amulet), Favored soul with decent enough build and armed with +4 Falchion may easily be ripped apart in Brux and Cranium rats nest, if he is not cautious enough.
As for what Strawberry sayed, well even with 28 AC (that is with +3 Breastplate and +4 Natural AC amulet), Favored soul with decent enough build and armed with +4 Falchion may easily be ripped apart in Brux and Cranium rats nest, if he is not cautious enough.
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*Ghost in the Machine
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
My character has a stall open sometimes but it's more an RP thing than making gold. In fact quite a few things get sold at a loss.
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*Jelkia
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Yeah.. kinda strange the muling thing... but then maybe I haven't been around long enough to see the bustling economy er what ever it is here that need protecting with a no muling rule?
Altair and Tia.. and I mean pretty much just Altair.. have been selling stuff here recently an regularly. We've got lots of complaints about high costs and I can get behind the complaints. Feel sorta bad turning folks away over a few thousand jink here an there. :(
I understand the plight. I tried levelin Tia as a non caster class right off when I made her.. and yeh... this server aint for that. >.> Ya get magic and level... er... ya get a buddy with magic and level.. er.. ya find some magic gear on the quick... I guess? Some how ya gotta get some magic any way or yer gonna have a bad time. Not an impossible time.. mostly just ah very slow one. Right now.. I don't know where yer supposed ta get it if ya don't get it with levels. I figured most servers that have a 'no muling' rule would have like.. 'robust' merchant NPC's to make that ok? Could be that I just don't know where those merchants are? Still learnin the city.. so sorry if I just didn't find them.
Altair and I are trying to get jink.. so we aint been even bothering with stuff that's for lower level folks. Anything that's not special gear's just getting NPC'd so... yeah. I guess we outta keep that sort of thing an try to help out? I'll start a box with low stuff in it and put it out when we're jinking.
While its been mostly Altair doing the selling I totally agree with MR. Oty. Having a no mulin rule.. and.. just a couple of ~EXPENSIVE~ NPC merchants.. seems like PC Merchanting would be.. I dunno.. better or something here? Little less tedius? O.o
Edit: An.. this post sounds all whiny and stuff. >.> Sorry bout that. I should maybe not post stuff this week. XD
Altair and Tia.. and I mean pretty much just Altair.. have been selling stuff here recently an regularly. We've got lots of complaints about high costs and I can get behind the complaints. Feel sorta bad turning folks away over a few thousand jink here an there. :(
I understand the plight. I tried levelin Tia as a non caster class right off when I made her.. and yeh... this server aint for that. >.> Ya get magic and level... er... ya get a buddy with magic and level.. er.. ya find some magic gear on the quick... I guess? Some how ya gotta get some magic any way or yer gonna have a bad time. Not an impossible time.. mostly just ah very slow one. Right now.. I don't know where yer supposed ta get it if ya don't get it with levels. I figured most servers that have a 'no muling' rule would have like.. 'robust' merchant NPC's to make that ok? Could be that I just don't know where those merchants are? Still learnin the city.. so sorry if I just didn't find them.
Altair and I are trying to get jink.. so we aint been even bothering with stuff that's for lower level folks. Anything that's not special gear's just getting NPC'd so... yeah. I guess we outta keep that sort of thing an try to help out? I'll start a box with low stuff in it and put it out when we're jinking.
While its been mostly Altair doing the selling I totally agree with MR. Oty. Having a no mulin rule.. and.. just a couple of ~EXPENSIVE~ NPC merchants.. seems like PC Merchanting would be.. I dunno.. better or something here? Little less tedius? O.o
Edit: An.. this post sounds all whiny and stuff. >.> Sorry bout that. I should maybe not post stuff this week. XD
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*TheMagickDoll
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
With my first character on the server, I got a bit lucky. She got some friendly patrons in her quest to fight demons and other evil creatures. I recently started focusing on a second character and I am definitely feeling those pains.
Even with my first character, neither of them are making enough gold for the asking prices from NPC or PC merchants. Those that have been around for a while won't want to buy any low level stuff my characters picks up and venders buys stuff for barely any gold for the value of said items. And I really cannot unload it on other low level characters because they do not have any gold themselves, being in the same position.
It is hard to spend gold to make more gold when you do not have any gold in the first place to buy anything to make more gold with.
But maybe there is a bit of solution there. New players finding patrons or other PCs that have been around for a while to work for? Get those social engines going. Maybe instead of PC merchant mechanics, have more of a PC made quest system or some way for PCs to advertise personal things they need done that low level PCs can do? This also might help bonds between characters.. get them more established.
Maybe a help wanted board for PCs to put up or looking for work? Who knows. Just tossing ideas out there. Maybe other people can spring board off them.
Even with my first character, neither of them are making enough gold for the asking prices from NPC or PC merchants. Those that have been around for a while won't want to buy any low level stuff my characters picks up and venders buys stuff for barely any gold for the value of said items. And I really cannot unload it on other low level characters because they do not have any gold themselves, being in the same position.
It is hard to spend gold to make more gold when you do not have any gold in the first place to buy anything to make more gold with.
But maybe there is a bit of solution there. New players finding patrons or other PCs that have been around for a while to work for? Get those social engines going. Maybe instead of PC merchant mechanics, have more of a PC made quest system or some way for PCs to advertise personal things they need done that low level PCs can do? This also might help bonds between characters.. get them more established.
Maybe a help wanted board for PCs to put up or looking for work? Who knows. Just tossing ideas out there. Maybe other people can spring board off them.
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*Mr_Otyugh
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
No muling rule definitely isn't in place just because it's "protecting the economy", it helps in that aspect though. It's one of the few most common rules among all the servers too. It makes things a bit more fair for new players, since old players can't just make any number of new characters with new classes and retain all their items. Although they can technically rebuild their current character. It also makes sure that things are more in character usually... since most characters should be strangers to each other already, or things get awkward from metagaming aspects. I mean lets say you were playing paladin now, then suddenly all those fancy items goes to the chaotic evil tanar'ri.
Of course as you say, the PC merchants do come with their own issues. But it was early on a design decision to encourage player driven market and it has worked to some extent well enough, with intervals of low activity.
I did also consider an idea of "merchandize booster packs", but more on that when I'm not at work.
Of course as you say, the PC merchants do come with their own issues. But it was early on a design decision to encourage player driven market and it has worked to some extent well enough, with intervals of low activity.
I did also consider an idea of "merchandize booster packs", but more on that when I'm not at work.
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*Taihou
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
It depends on merchanting strategy as well - one is attempting to get evry extra possible cog for every worthy item, other would try to empty his pockets as soon as possible, earning in process just a bit more, than if he vendored the items.
It is all the matter of how one approaches. It.
Should perhaps start a stoll on Yasuyo some day soon and see if ridiculously low prices would ensure the amount of successful deals. But I do nay feel like merchanting most of the time, even if I am bored and have nothing else to do.
It is all the matter of how one approaches. It.
Should perhaps start a stoll on Yasuyo some day soon and see if ridiculously low prices would ensure the amount of successful deals. But I do nay feel like merchanting most of the time, even if I am bored and have nothing else to do.
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*Jelkia
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Totally agree on the hiring people stuff! Great idea! ^.^ Tia's been trying to hire people here and there for little stuff and its been super fun helping out and doing RP stuff. Speaking of.. Tia totally wants for ah more permanant hire if anyone's interested in playin ah secretarial kobold or small dragon or the like. XD
MR. Oty.. I'd say I don't care so much about the mulin rules or what ever.. just still kinda roughish on new characters to get a leg up one way or the other. Seems like low range stuff outta be super cheap or drop a lot more often? Sorta weird though.. cause if the idea is to promote character interation with selling an buying.. it really might need a little work? Altair showed me how its done and digging though several bags an wanding chests and bags and having to edit each item seperately with an editing tool and updating chests and stuff... Seems like if you want there to be ah focus on this stuff.. uh.. dunno.. but maybe focusing on it would help focus on it instead of a worrying about muling? >.>
Speaking of.. where's the merchant that sells the VERY NECESSARY item that has 1/day use of Pro Evil/Good? O.o Very very early on it seems like ya need that spell on ya just to LIVE. I think I'm missing that merchant. Anyone point them out? Cause runing back to town to get a cast of it every time you rest is.. just gawdawful.
MR. Oty.. I'd say I don't care so much about the mulin rules or what ever.. just still kinda roughish on new characters to get a leg up one way or the other. Seems like low range stuff outta be super cheap or drop a lot more often? Sorta weird though.. cause if the idea is to promote character interation with selling an buying.. it really might need a little work? Altair showed me how its done and digging though several bags an wanding chests and bags and having to edit each item seperately with an editing tool and updating chests and stuff... Seems like if you want there to be ah focus on this stuff.. uh.. dunno.. but maybe focusing on it would help focus on it instead of a worrying about muling? >.>
Speaking of.. where's the merchant that sells the VERY NECESSARY item that has 1/day use of Pro Evil/Good? O.o Very very early on it seems like ya need that spell on ya just to LIVE. I think I'm missing that merchant. Anyone point them out? Cause runing back to town to get a cast of it every time you rest is.. just gawdawful.
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*Sinlinara
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
My ideal merchant experience would be one where I would not have to sit around and do literally nothing for hours.
One way this could be accomplished is if I didn't have to actually sell my own items. It would require the work of the development team one way or the other, but if Clangeddin could whip up some special UI for a Free League Trading Board where people could put items up for sale and stuff? That would be ideal for me as a merchant.
The downside to that would of course be development time, bugs, probably more intensive use of server resources, a drastic change to the economy, the loss of merchant RP as it is presently, and a general sort of meta-ness that goes with this sort of thing (although we already sort of have that whenever someone complains about there being no merchants despite there being NPC merchants both seen and unseen).
One way this could be accomplished is if I didn't have to actually sell my own items. It would require the work of the development team one way or the other, but if Clangeddin could whip up some special UI for a Free League Trading Board where people could put items up for sale and stuff? That would be ideal for me as a merchant.
The downside to that would of course be development time, bugs, probably more intensive use of server resources, a drastic change to the economy, the loss of merchant RP as it is presently, and a general sort of meta-ness that goes with this sort of thing (although we already sort of have that whenever someone complains about there being no merchants despite there being NPC merchants both seen and unseen).
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*Mr_Otyugh
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Anti-muling is an automated system, so that hardly needs more focus than anyone with a moment to poke a person to remind them that it is against the rules, and in repeated offenses take actions. That's not really away from development time. As such, there's really no real focus on muling to begin with which would take focus away from problems of equipment distribution.
Itemization of merchants is really something that I'd suggest all merchants to take another look at and work by the general observation of supply and demand. Try to find ways to stock up on items that are in high demand and such. As such, there needs to be more alternative ways to destroy items for X benefit, like the magic electrifier... new kind of gambler? Destroy items for enough much value (using similar calculation system as Magic Electrifier) to generate a randomized item? That should get all of that junk nobody wants into good use too.
And if as a merchant you want high activity, why not come up with some theme "events" while being a merchant? Discount tickets, lottery for everyone that has bought with at least X amount of gold, I don't know... garlic festival for all the vampires? Merchandize doesn't need to be the main event, it can be supplementary avenue while trying to keep other characters around with a daily theme.
Overall, merchant system isn't perfect, but there are many ways to try to fix the problem. For me, my main point of focus remains on how to make it more appealing for player merchants.
Itemization of merchants is really something that I'd suggest all merchants to take another look at and work by the general observation of supply and demand. Try to find ways to stock up on items that are in high demand and such. As such, there needs to be more alternative ways to destroy items for X benefit, like the magic electrifier... new kind of gambler? Destroy items for enough much value (using similar calculation system as Magic Electrifier) to generate a randomized item? That should get all of that junk nobody wants into good use too.
And if as a merchant you want high activity, why not come up with some theme "events" while being a merchant? Discount tickets, lottery for everyone that has bought with at least X amount of gold, I don't know... garlic festival for all the vampires? Merchandize doesn't need to be the main event, it can be supplementary avenue while trying to keep other characters around with a daily theme.
Overall, merchant system isn't perfect, but there are many ways to try to fix the problem. For me, my main point of focus remains on how to make it more appealing for player merchants.