Bigbies

[*Tildryn]

Just hope that no Arcane Scholar uses Quickened Forceful Hand. Since unless you have exceptionally good reflexes you'll have a real hard time getting off a potion or wand. HiPS is the best defense.

[*ovarf]

not to mention with no spellcraft you would just have to guess

[*Product of Void]

Most folks who are die hard casters say "never focus on DC". In nwn1 it was Dc or Do not bother.

Here many things exceed saves that you can forget it, much like players.

forceful hand was pretty nasty though Crushing hand as the OP shows is uber nasty.

If I would change forceful it would be d20 +casters modifier.

Crushing hand I could see making it more of a 50% chance to hit, with a different roll for grapple.

Caster Roll: d20 + Primary Spell Ability Modifier + Caster level + 12 - 1
Target Roll: Target's full AC

remove the +12 and -1

would make it d20 +10 +30 = d20+40. roughly 50% chance to hit ac 50

Caster Roll: d20 + Primary Spell Ability Modifier + Caster Level + 12 + 4
Target Roll: d20 + Full base attack bonus + Size Modifier + Strength Ability Modifier

again remove the +12+4

would make a fighter with bab 30 and str 30 (mod 10) be on an even d20 vs d20.

This allows for a Chance to be hit, Chance to be grappled instead of Insta grapple.

Though if Not a full bab or str of 30. it is not even. Mostly this would aid fighters and melee while rogues would have the same hard time.

[*Guest]

I don't really see how Sequencer potions are very effective against something like Bigby's. I mean, the person uses one and the caster then wastes three bigbys and the fourth hits. How many potions would be needed? Four, five, six? A stack? That's for every encounter with any mage, ever, barring quickened bigby's.

And someone's entire AC is faced by... CL(32 seems about normal) + Ability score(+10/11) + The spell's bonus(+9/10/11). So it's a roll made at a mod of 50-55ish, then add a d20. Very few will dodge that regularly, if at all.

Then it's a direct roll of BAB(30)+Str(10). Caster will have CL(32)+4+(10/12) Int/Cha(10).

40 v 56(or 58). This assumes everything is golden for the victim of bigbys, anyone with less than maximum strength will never even break it. CL can go as high as 33 with just practiced spellcaster(32 is usually the total. 28 casting levels, 1 rogue, 1 shadow dancer), if you grab up red wizard then things just get silly.

IMO the only way to counter any of these spells "with counters" are rolling a caster yourself. HiPs is another option, somewhat, but most casters will have persistent Claud/Clair(+10 spot/listen), +20 listen from amplify, and +10 from having you flipped hostile. SR is opposed by a d20+level, so you would need atleast 48+ SR to get reliable results(32+6).

If you have neither HiPs or high UMD and a lot of scrolls, you're dead every time. Sorry, Ovarf, L2powerbuild I guess. =/
~~~~~~~~


I also dig the idea of giving Harper's a Use! They great addition to every party... except the evil ones.

But if they're the only useful class in that situation, there's a pretty gnarly problem. For Niflheim, you need a spirit shaman. A doom guide could make it corporeal, but wouldn't negate the DR. Without having meta knowledge, "Guys, we need to bring a spirit shaman or we can't hurt the end boss. No, not a druid. They cast the same spells, but we need a spirit shaman... I don't know why though." it makes a sour end to a great dungeon even if you had a pretty well balanced party.

[*Pashan01]

My first and currently only run through Nifflheim - we were four in party.

Only one high level great fast fighter type, one high level fighter/mage/buffer, one lowbie tagging along for the adventure whom we managed to keep alive but couldn't do much to contribute other than RP and keep out the way and my pixie (a few good spells, nothing much else fight wise other that a bit of wand work, good dodger though but rubbish at fighting).

Result? didn't need a spirit shaman, basicially two to three fighter mages using the right skills and techniques through it was a fantastic challenge but not impossible, RPing all the way baby too!
:D

[*The_Tarot]

I don't really see how Sequencer potions are very effective against something like Bigby's. I mean, the person uses one and the caster then wastes three bigbys and the fourth hits. How many potions would be needed?

You're kidding me right? I didn't say it wasn't costly, nor fool proof.

But when people complain about absorbing three of four attacks of a mage's high level spells out of a limited repertoire. While you're completely free to faceplant him during that time. Something is seriously wrong.

Casters do not have unlimited spells. This includes the bosses of the Pit Fiend caster boss in Abyss, and The Ascended in Death of Innocence. If you can't kill or severely disrupt the spellcaster in the 18 seconds of immunity to everything he's going to do, then yes, I guess you'll just have to drink a second, or third potion.

A warlock. The least powerful of all the base classes. Can kill the Pit Fiend Wizard in roughly six or seven rounds.

Melee do far more damage than a Caster/Warlock can ever hope to achieve.

I lose faith in humanity when people want more than "complete immunity."

[*xeneize]

mod bigby's series and you will soon have people asking for HIPS to also go, Improved knockdown, etc. *shrugs* :ph43r:

[*ovarf]

let it go already this thread was dead 2 pages ago now and the Dev team clearly stated it wasn't changing it.

*edit*
I was obviously going to let this go but against my better judgment i am going to respond anyway.

So the counter to big's is to find a mage to cast a spell on a potion that you can drink if you are lucky enuf to do it quickly enuf.

non casters without HiPS then are simply ballast then. They have no purpose in game and are merely beggars living off the scraps their betters decide to throw them. the only defense against the casters they have are other casters.

there is absolutely nothing they can do to change this as there is no way to build a defense at all, without becoming a caster.

(the counter argument is of course that casters have limited spells) fine but all that implies is you can get them in an ambush well to that i reply you can get ANYONE in an ambush so if the only counter against a type is one that works on everyone then maybe that's not much of an argument.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Though to point out one thing, we will also ponder about adjusting critters based on the replies on this thread.

[*pelhikano]

I've moved this topic to General Discussion because it doesn't really concern any "bug" as such. We are always interested to hear how players find the balance on the server, but please keep it civil.