The light and how to swing it!

[*Ceremorph]

Some of this also would depend on the deity the character is a paladin of. To delve into the Forgotten Realms for a moment, a paladin of Ilmater would have a very different outlook than one of Helm, and his response would have to be based upon his own god's doctrine and view of what proper "law" was.

Another potential point would be what society the paladin was raised in. Taking the real world as an example, a character of this type in ancient egypt would view brutally enslaving one's own countrymen as a necessary cog of society and the law as being whatever Pharaoh, anointed of the gods, decided it should be; in a medieval european setting, an economy openly based on slavery would seem to be a hallmark of an evil society, and a king who made decisions that did not match up with the standard mores of the civilization would possibly be needing removal in that paladin's eyes. Or to put it in Forgotten Realms terms, a paladin who had been raised in Thay might agree with the need to unseat Ssass Tam and other overtly evil Zulkirs, but on the other hand would still bear hatred towards his nation's enemies and believe slavery to be a normal part of life; and be very much at odds with a paladin of, say, Cormyr, who would want to see the entire nation of Thay destroyed for its obvious evil.

This has bearing, when possibly a majority of characters being played on Sigil come there from elsewhere.

And to tell the truth, this is why I've always had issue with the entire "paladin must be LG" ideal. I understand that the class is built upon the holy knights of Arthurian legend, but I've always personally felt that "paladins" should exist for every religion. Why should there not be a champion of CN (and I mean true paladin, not the watered-down divine champion) who devotes his entire life to the progress of anarchy and entropy? I felt that this was somewhat addressed by the blackguard, but even he must work towards being this, whereas the paladin is a true holy warrior from the start. In my own P&P campaigns (1st edition - hehehe), I actually did have paladins of other alignments, simply because it seemed to make sense and there was no prestige class alternative at the time, unless you turned to the somewhat silly anti-paladin from Dragon Magazine; it worked quite well, with TN paladins devoted to the druids' holy groves, CN paladins serving their slaadi masters' directive to destroy, and CG paladins roaming the land and seeking to perform deeds of good to enhance their own legend.

I'm not suggesting that such a thing be implemented here, but as Theorem said, "paladin" is its own alignment, based mainly upon the entire "if you stray, you lose your powers" thing. But let's remember that 66.6% lawful and 66.6% good is still lawful good, if just barely, and not every paladin has to be shoehorned into the dudley do-right mold. After all, did sleeping with his best friend and liege lord's wife make Lancelot any less of a paladin?

[*Black_Grove]

Well said, especially the part about cultures. The lawful alignments are clearly not 'someone who follows any laws' but they ARE people who conform to their cultural norms and THEIR cultures laws


I sort of agree the game really needs holy warriors of all alignments, but even if not that the paladin should never ever have been LG. The righteous knight who always does what is right but tries to keep to the law for the common good... is NG. So long as good is done they will use the law or break it to do the right thing. Seems most players have that view of how a paladin should be played anyway


Even more simple than making holy warriors for every moral posture would be to simply get rid of paladins and blackguards and just let them be fighters who are serious about their religion. If you need magic powers from your god, make a cleric


So again, perfectly pointed out when you bring up the culture of the paladin. The lawful part is about conforming to cultural norms that a whole society accepts. Those who live in a society but follow their own moral compass are not lawful

After all, did sleeping with his best friend and liege lord's wife make Lancelot any less of a paladin?

Yes, yes it did. This is why Galahad was found to be the one worthy of finding the Holy Grail.... because Lancelot was a whorish backstabber to his sovereign lord. At one time he had been the greatest knight in all Christendom but threw that away for something he clearly knew was the wrong thing to do




J

[*Mr_Otyugh]

Paladin in short:

Holy Warrior (They're warriors, they don't just carry around armor and weapons for show... they use them to advance in their beliefs or they'd be called diplomats)
Lawful Good (Selfless rule bound philosophical view of multiverse, whether misguided or attempt of improving the situation through inspiring, leading and motivating others by example)
Follow Your Deitys Dogma (You're their champion, you receive powers from your deity because you're doing service to them... NOT because you're doing service to YOURSELF)

Keep it simple is my opinion ;) the more you get away from the basics, the more you rip your hairs off.