It seems you're assuming our voices go unheard. In truth, most of the changes that happen (excluding bug fixes) are discussed by anyone who wants to have a say. Proof exists in the vampire prc, where it's being changed after a public debate where the players voiced their opinions on the class.
Instead, what I see is the same dozen players giving their input, and twice as many others complaining about things in game when they're too whatever to contribute where it matters. If people want more of a say in how things are developing,
Of course, I may be misunderstanding what you're saying. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I can't make any sense of that first paragraph.
Public Appeal To Admins, Builders And Dms
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*Ariella
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Small clarification here the ability was not removed due to complaining. The ability was removed as it was never suppose to go in the first place. We have a considerable number of builders and active projects that sometimes a feature sneaks in without staff census and has to be removed, Nerfed or changed.
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*Sinlinara
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
(Disclaimer: I am not a member of the staff and the following statements are limited solely to my opinion.)
It is a really, really bad idea to open this and things like it up for public testing. Aside from how much people would complain if anything were ever removed, the amount of headache that could potentially be caused in the meanwhile would cause many other people to not enjoy the game. It's not so much "collective responsibility" as it is "do we want to put people in a situation where their enjoyment of the game will be diminished by this thing?"
Look at the Huge Dragons. People were abusing it. Other people were not having fun. People (me) talked about removing it. The drama still continues to this day. And if anything, that proved to me that the staff should be even more cautious about including potentially problematic features - not less.
This entire debacle seems to be somewhat similar in a lot of respects. People criticizing the staff for their decisions, people mad over what may be some bad apples, and some temperamental and unproductive discussing past people long after the staff had already explained their stance. The truth is, your input was heard but there were likely reasons why it was decided against.
[align=center]~+~+~+[/align]
I don't have access to all of the builder forums but I do see a bit of what goes on underneath the veil. There is a lot of consideration given to things like this and what their limits should be; mechanically, relative to lore, and otherwise. No part of this process is ever hasty, especially when these things have to go through several rounds of building, testing, fixing, tweaking, and refining, with input and work done by multiple people working as a team to make the latest and greatest additions. The most recent Golem Expansion's thread has over ten pages, and that was just to add additional golems to an already existing system.
If there is a feature that you want added, or something that you want changed, I do not think that dismissing any part of the creative process as 'hasty' is something that is going to earn you much endearment from the people who have to work to make those changes and features a reality. Neither does making a giant scene in front of the entire community asking them to reconsider after they've already reached a decision.
It's okay to not like staff decisions - I'm still not fond of the fact that people without a spellcasting ability can take the Craft Construct feat and make anything they want through the Golem Master PRC. But I understand the reasons why Ceremorph wanted it to be that way and there's so many other things in the module that I can do that it really doesn't bother me.
Anyways. Here is a very adorable puppers. Please become captivated by its fluffiness.
It is a really, really bad idea to open this and things like it up for public testing. Aside from how much people would complain if anything were ever removed, the amount of headache that could potentially be caused in the meanwhile would cause many other people to not enjoy the game. It's not so much "collective responsibility" as it is "do we want to put people in a situation where their enjoyment of the game will be diminished by this thing?"
Look at the Huge Dragons. People were abusing it. Other people were not having fun. People (me) talked about removing it. The drama still continues to this day. And if anything, that proved to me that the staff should be even more cautious about including potentially problematic features - not less.
This entire debacle seems to be somewhat similar in a lot of respects. People criticizing the staff for their decisions, people mad over what may be some bad apples, and some temperamental and unproductive discussing past people long after the staff had already explained their stance. The truth is, your input was heard but there were likely reasons why it was decided against.
[align=center]~+~+~+[/align]
I don't have access to all of the builder forums but I do see a bit of what goes on underneath the veil. There is a lot of consideration given to things like this and what their limits should be; mechanically, relative to lore, and otherwise. No part of this process is ever hasty, especially when these things have to go through several rounds of building, testing, fixing, tweaking, and refining, with input and work done by multiple people working as a team to make the latest and greatest additions. The most recent Golem Expansion's thread has over ten pages, and that was just to add additional golems to an already existing system.
If there is a feature that you want added, or something that you want changed, I do not think that dismissing any part of the creative process as 'hasty' is something that is going to earn you much endearment from the people who have to work to make those changes and features a reality. Neither does making a giant scene in front of the entire community asking them to reconsider after they've already reached a decision.
It's okay to not like staff decisions - I'm still not fond of the fact that people without a spellcasting ability can take the Craft Construct feat and make anything they want through the Golem Master PRC. But I understand the reasons why Ceremorph wanted it to be that way and there's so many other things in the module that I can do that it really doesn't bother me.
Anyways. Here is a very adorable puppers. Please become captivated by its fluffiness.
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*DM-Stitch(es)
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
<3Sinlinara,Aug 8 2016 wrote: (Disclaimer: I am not a member of the staff and the following statements are limited solely to my opinion.)
It is a really, really bad idea to open this and things like it up for public testing. Aside from how much people would complain if anything were ever removed, the amount of headache that could potentially be caused in the meanwhile would cause many other people to not enjoy the game. It's not so much "collective responsibility" as it is "do we want to put people in a situation where their enjoyment of the game will be diminished by this thing?"
Look at the Huge Dragons. People were abusing it. Other people were not having fun. People (me) talked about removing it. The drama still continues to this day. And if anything, that proved to me that the staff should be even more cautious about including potentially problematic features - not less.
This entire debacle seems to be somewhat similar in a lot of respects. People criticizing the staff for their decisions, people mad over what may be some bad apples, and some temperamental and unproductive discussing past people long after the staff had already explained their stance. The truth is, your input was heard but there were likely reasons why it was decided against.
[align=center]~+~+~+[/align]
I don't have access to all of the builder forums but I do see a bit of what goes on underneath the veil. There is a lot of consideration given to things like this and what their limits should be; mechanically, relative to lore, and otherwise. No part of this process is ever hasty, especially when these things have to go through several rounds of building, testing, fixing, tweaking, and refining, with input and work done by multiple people working as a team to make the latest and greatest additions. The most recent Golem Expansion's thread has over ten pages, and that was just to add additional golems to an already existing system.
If there is a feature that you want added, or something that you want changed, I do not think that dismissing any part of the creative process as 'hasty' is something that is going to earn you much endearment from the people who have to work to make those changes and features a reality. Neither does making a giant scene in front of the entire community asking them to reconsider after they've already reached a decision.
It's okay to not like staff decisions - I'm still not fond of the fact that people without a spellcasting ability can take the Craft Construct feat and make anything they want through the Golem Master PRC. But I understand the reasons why Ceremorph wanted it to be that way and there's so many other things in the module that I can do that it really doesn't bother me.
Anyways. Here is a very adorable puppers. Please become captivated by its fluffiness.
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*Taihou
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Recent changes made me write this appeal, because there were some decisions made recently, which not just look, but are hasty, forethought-lacking, double-standard driven and overly based on some subjective opinions on matter.
For this reason I would like to invoke server staff to review their current policies, as paths they go are obviously and blatantly wrong.
1) Listening to forum-whiners (especially those, who actually quite rarely are seen actually playing) in general, as well as those in particular, who come to be afraid of something, because it may be used for malefic purposes, is highly incorrect path.
The fact is, that it is nay an MMO game with thousand-man player base, but a multiplayer server with barely over hundred active players. Also it is nay a secret, that every feature in bad hands may serve malefic purposes.
What makes matters worse, is that 5-6 people whining on forum result in decision, that may be disapproved by 20+ people, who do nay participate in forum, and thus such decision lack objective view on the situation.
2) Sanctioning/depriving whole player base for undoings of single people. "Collective responsibility" is viable ONLY in cases of groups of people, who are tightly bindeth by common obligations and are familiar with each other as one monolith community. Player base of multiplayer server is nay such, as there are those, who form different OOC cliques and lobby different concepts and opinions.
3) Hasty decisions regarding features in general, that scare certain people without trial period.
I am asking you, dear staff, to understand, that the potential possibility for malefic actions is by no means a warrant, that such actions will be taken by players on practice. Correct and just way to deal with such actions is to view them on case by case basis and sanction , if they are result of evil forethought of particular person. Also I ask you to understand, that there is nay need for in-game mechanical features, to grief people, if one has decided to commit OOC evil acts.
"Weapons do nay commit murder, people do" and "Any undoing has first and last name"
I hope this more or less looks like constructive criticism. If needeth, additional clarification for any statement above may be provided.
My appreciation for your attention.
For this reason I would like to invoke server staff to review their current policies, as paths they go are obviously and blatantly wrong.
1) Listening to forum-whiners (especially those, who actually quite rarely are seen actually playing) in general, as well as those in particular, who come to be afraid of something, because it may be used for malefic purposes, is highly incorrect path.
The fact is, that it is nay an MMO game with thousand-man player base, but a multiplayer server with barely over hundred active players. Also it is nay a secret, that every feature in bad hands may serve malefic purposes.
What makes matters worse, is that 5-6 people whining on forum result in decision, that may be disapproved by 20+ people, who do nay participate in forum, and thus such decision lack objective view on the situation.
2) Sanctioning/depriving whole player base for undoings of single people. "Collective responsibility" is viable ONLY in cases of groups of people, who are tightly bindeth by common obligations and are familiar with each other as one monolith community. Player base of multiplayer server is nay such, as there are those, who form different OOC cliques and lobby different concepts and opinions.
3) Hasty decisions regarding features in general, that scare certain people without trial period.
I am asking you, dear staff, to understand, that the potential possibility for malefic actions is by no means a warrant, that such actions will be taken by players on practice. Correct and just way to deal with such actions is to view them on case by case basis and sanction , if they are result of evil forethought of particular person. Also I ask you to understand, that there is nay need for in-game mechanical features, to grief people, if one has decided to commit OOC evil acts.
"Weapons do nay commit murder, people do" and "Any undoing has first and last name"
I hope this more or less looks like constructive criticism. If needeth, additional clarification for any statement above may be provided.
My appreciation for your attention.
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*DM-Stitch(es)
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
This is the only reply I will give.
I take it this has to do with the entire Doppelganger saga.
My personal opinion as a DM (and yes, also a player) is that Doppelganger on itself, should not even be made available to players, at all.
If anything, the past two-three months have seen a LOT of griefing and drama, PvP and RP wise.
If people can't even deal with mundane things and sort things out like adults, why would we open op Pandora's box (because that is exactly what doppelgangers will be, in hands of quite some players on our server)?
That said, if majority of staff thinks we should give Doppelgangers a go, it is what it is.
However, as long as people OOC can opt out of being confronted with consequences for their actions, I personally don't entrust doppelgangers and the huge amounts of drama they will bring along to the community. Sorry, but not sorry.
Taihou, sadly, over all these years, some drama we foresee, has proven itself time and again. You can't blame staff for taking precautions out of experiences.
I take it this has to do with the entire Doppelganger saga.
My personal opinion as a DM (and yes, also a player) is that Doppelganger on itself, should not even be made available to players, at all.
If anything, the past two-three months have seen a LOT of griefing and drama, PvP and RP wise.
If people can't even deal with mundane things and sort things out like adults, why would we open op Pandora's box (because that is exactly what doppelgangers will be, in hands of quite some players on our server)?
That said, if majority of staff thinks we should give Doppelgangers a go, it is what it is.
However, as long as people OOC can opt out of being confronted with consequences for their actions, I personally don't entrust doppelgangers and the huge amounts of drama they will bring along to the community. Sorry, but not sorry.
Taihou, sadly, over all these years, some drama we foresee, has proven itself time and again. You can't blame staff for taking precautions out of experiences.
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*KingLeoric
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
It works as it is and is not going to be changed. Deal with it.
Your opinion matters and counted if your name is purple. Your one is not purple. Got the idea?
Your opinion matters and counted if your name is purple. Your one is not purple. Got the idea?
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*DM-Stitch(es)
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
I don't get what you are trying to say.KingLeoric,Aug 8 2016 wrote: It works as it is and is not going to be changed. Deal with it.
Your opinion matters and counted if your name is purple. Your one is not purple. Got the idea?
Doppelgangers are in. They still can do what they do, just takes longer.
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*KingLeoric
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
No. Doppelgangers are able to copy any humanoid. SCoDs ones are disabled. And taking into account metagaming & railroads now it is just a junk race as kobolds. And I doubt that it is a thread concerning especially doppelgangers. Taihou is not playing it, I think he is just sharing his opinion overall.