Aspire To?

[*Darkrob]

You mentioned RPing a character (within a faction) to progress. Good enough. I played a Mercykiller for a time. From the best of my knowledge I was the only active MK in play. Wore the garb, RP'd the mindset, mingled as a Red Death... not once did I ever attract the attention of a DM (other than those on as players). Now usually this wouldn't be a problem except Mercykiller players are not permitted to ply their trade on other PC characters. We haven't the authority so it all comes down to how much input you're given by DM's. In all the time I played him (as a MK) I never had DM interaction... not once. I made a strict point to be visible whenever possible. Wandered about Rping on both Mercykiller theme days and still nothing. No DM would interact. Now a player shouldn't have to beg a DM to play with them. A DM should always take the inititive and interact with the player as the player goes about his daily RP rituals... they are, by nature, the story tellers...

While I like the idea of actually advancing in Factol plots, those plots need to actually exist. Right now most factions don't even exist. DM's don't want to RP the plots associated with them... now... I know I say "DM's" as a whole but there are a couple who will RP as required.

I think in order for players to know they can actually make a difference there needs to be a leadership style by staff to show them. DM's need to be inspired and they need an Admin team to be that inspiration. Small plot DM's are fine but, really... they should be the exception as opposed to the rule.

Just my two cents on the subject. Good post though Cere... well written and thought out.

[*Ceremorph]

not once did I ever attract the attention of a DM (other than those on as players)

I can only speak for myself here, DarkRob, but let me describe what tends to happen many times when I log on as DM. The left side of my screen turns green. This is basically people sending me tells.

I know that there are some servers out there where the DMs don't want to be spoken to, but the fact of the matter is that when I have the DM hat on, I'm not going to just hang around looking for people to "attract my attention". Many times, I have continuing plotlines that I need to touch base with; if not, I'm going to take a quick look around, and if I'm going to start a plot I'm going to start a plot, but it's not going to be a plot tailored to an individual player; it's going to be something to draw in whoever. And I do recall involving one of your characters in a quest once.

But something like advancing in a faction is going to have to either come as a natural extension of a plot (unlikely, because I tend not to base most of my storylines on faction politics), or due to a player contacting me and requesting something.

This does, however, play into one thing. If you want me to help you with a plot hook, I'm going to need multiple people involved, and the chance of character development. So.. feel free to give me a yell if you have some faction-specific RP you'd like to pursue.

[*Darkrob]

I understand but I think what I'm alluding to here is the lack of DM interaction as a whole upon the mod. A server, whose main draw is the huge Cache of factions... cannot ignore those factions. They need DM's willing to take the reins of the factions. They need a lead DM to help organize them and keep track of things. I know some DM's find politics boring or time consuming but in a mod like this, where the main force of power is in factions, it needs to happen. I've spoken to folks who've since left the mod due to lack of DM interaction or focussed DM interaction (always on the same players/characters). In a setting like Planescape that isn't a good thing.

Tha factions need a driving force to ensure their playability. Whether that's monthly meetings, set storylines, interfaction discussions/workings, whatever, they need to happen. Right now the vast majority of factions appear as text in the lore section of the forum. They have no active leadership. They have no active stories. Aside from, maybe, 3 or 4 of them... the rest simply exist in names only.

In my last mod we had several cities that the characters could establish themselves in. Now... successful or not, each city had a dedicated DM. When required that DM was the goto authority for that city. They interacted with the players on plots for that city (along side their own little stories if any were active). There was a handful of *miniplot* DM's who only played small story type things but the rest at least ensured the cities had a voice.

The factions (or at least the main dozen or so) need that leadership. They need to have a guide. Someone who's the goto for them. For the most part... it doesn't exist. Everybody seems to want to stand back and let someone else deal with it but that someone doesn't materialize.

The factions have always been the main story draw of Planescape... they need to be utilized, embraced... not ignored or tossed aside.

There needs to be someone on staff to ensure these things are covered... organized. I'm not sure if that exists or not but, hell... I don't even know most of the staff at this point, hehe.

I don't mean to harp... really I don't... but it gets frustrating to see theses things just ignored. To try to build around the factions only to have absoluetly nothing happen unless we specifically ask for it... then you really don't know who to ask. DM's need to be more open to the community as a whole. To tell the stories of the server, not just a few friends.

The factions could be an amazing tool for folks to advance and play in... they simply need to be used as such.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

My opinion is this: DMs are not only ones who should take initiative to do something. Quite frankly there's more players than there are DMs. This is not PnP... this is online DMing. The world is already set, your imagination does not build the areas... DMs are supportive force, not necessity like PnP.

Players aren't in a storyline told by DM by standard. Players make their own storyline which might or might not be supported by DM, at parts it might be, at parts it might not be. This is what multiplayer DMing and Gaming is.

If you want to get somewhere, take initiative and don't expect it to be brought on silver plate. Get creative. Do something that makes the faction more visible. Having gear and stuff is good start, but you're also supposed to "Market your faction"... inspire players to become part of it. Am I wrong? Or you just want to be part of faction without really doing anything other than when someone says? Sounds like getting to management of the factions isn't the best idea to begin with.

[*Darkrob]

My opinion is this: DMs are not only ones who should take initiative to do something. Quite frankly there's more players than there are DMs. This is not PnP... this is online DMing. The world is already set, your imagination does not build the areas... DMs are supportive force, not necessity like PnP.

Players aren't in a storyline told by DM by standard. Players make their own storyline which might or might not be supported by DM, at parts it might be, at parts it might not be. This is what multiplayer DMing and Gaming is.

If you want to get somewhere, take initiative and don't expect it to be brought on silver plate. Get creative. Do something that makes the faction more visible. Having gear and stuff is good start, but you're also supposed to "Market your faction"... inspire players to become part of it. Am I wrong? Or you just want to be part of faction without really doing anything other than when someone says? Sounds like getting to management of the factions isn't the best idea to begin with.

Actually... My Mercykiller did bring on another Mercykiller... tavelled and RP'd alongside her for some time... Marketed it... still didn't make a difference...

DM's are supposed to be storytellers... not referees. They are supposed to facilitate existing charctaer plotlines (as you've suggested) and also create new ones by creating plot hooks. A good DM can gauge his player base, see who is doing what, and act accordingly... not wait for a tell, or PM, asking for assistance. Good RP should be rewarded by an observant DM not used as a "please come help me" card by a player.

I understand you run your mod in the way you see fit, I can agree with that. This is simply my take on how I see it.

[*Mr_Otyugh]

You know what's best fix for these? Quit being the problem and start being part of solution.

Start making factions more active by 'own example'. Not by words and casting the work on others. The problem is not DMs alone, we simply don't have enough manpower... the problem is also that players themselves are unwilling to DO something. Want to prove me wrong? Well start doing something and if that wont' work, then you can say I have been wrong. Not before.

I'm not being offensive, I'm being realistic. Because quite frankly, players will never be happy. It's not because inactivity of anyone, it's human psychology. Constant desire for more. When one problem is fixed, another problem arises... when that is fixed, another problem arises. No matter what I do, someone will always be displeased. Think that's fair? That I have to listen players lecturing me how to do my job while they do nothing themselves? I'm just lecturing like you are. I know how to DM, quit implying we don't.

If you want to make a complaint, make it in PM. If you want to make suggestion, make a suggestion and leave it at that.


And as softer end :P

[*Kree]

What makes me chuckle a bit, is the everpresent "lust" for power among players. But perhaps that is because I do not have that desire at all myself.

And that's pretty much all I have to say in contribution to this thread.
Just try to have fun...

[*hunvagy]

Well, it did take a few days of thinking to finally post in this thread. As I manly did PnP in the past, I now see how much different that kind of play is from online RP/DMing something.

In PnP, you have a small/medium community of PCs, who really stand side by side from the beginning to the end, thus enabling to have strong bonds IC and OOC wise, and can attune to each other, helping the DM in shaping their stories. This is only to a degree possible here, because as said before, it leads to cliques and others feeling left out.

But I also have to say, that some stories that happen on server are impossible to share with the greater community. Just think about it, would your character who is having some serious midlife crisis run up two a cleric who he never met in his life, just because he needs his help and spill everything about itself to said character? I think not. Whether these are DM controlled or just player based is not really relevant. On the other hand, if you walk around, and listen in, and maybe decide that "hey, those guys seem to be up for something", you can always tag along, and try to be part of it.

As for longing for game or world changing events.. I really don't understand the need. Even if one character reaches level 30, he is far from being able to do something really drastic. Maybe it is my problem that I'm more for having a fun time while online, instead of scheming to murder the Lady and become the King of Pain, or whatever. Also consider, if you would become leader of the Harmonium for example, what adventuring possibilities wouldbe left to you? Somewhere around zero, as you'd spend all day sitting around in your office, reading warrants, wagering if you should investigate, inspect your men, reprimand others.. all who would be NPCs for most part, unless you can rally some 20+ PC 'ardheads, who all acknowledge you as the leader, and are ready to do your bidding.

Adventurers have their possibilites open exactly because they don't try to tie themselves down with politics or places up high. But again, this is just what I think.

But seeing the murder mystery thread and Lute's guild, which is growing by numbers, there are possibilities to evolve and take your character to what he/she desires. And on a sidenote, I for one am a bit sad, that after that short meeting Adam was perma'd, because he seemed like and interesting fellow, someone whose story I'd love to have heard.

[*Shade Thon-Thalas]

First of all I apologise if I cant remember all said, i did read every post but the memory of man is just as long as it is.

I want to give full support to DM team here regarding of the status quo they are keeping.
Since this is a setting based on something, you cannot change the names and rulers of factions. Cryptc already explained why so I dont say it twice. But if PW is based in setting that isnt wotc based or tolkien or any other based,but strictly dev teams own creation,it gives better chances to allow player leading things. But then also you get accusations of favoritism nonetheless.

Then I want to give my support to mr O when he explains the nature of being DM in online game. I have been DM in nwn and nwn2 and its FAR from easy to make things happen quickly. if you want to know how it feels. Then go to shop and buy your inventory full of wands, every one creates something, one wand for item, next to placeable... table... then you seek wand with chairs... and so forth. you add some effects and some creatures... There creatures are not possessed,so you cannot control them directly, Try to make battle feel challenging but not impossible while you cannot control your spawns directly... Darn dmfi doesnt allow to make too long sentences... or if you want to make long ones, you have to possess npc and that creates sometimes enourmous lag.
With all those kind of little problems, you try to be also a storyteller. Its not easy!


I think the best solution is to make player made guilds. They can be what name ever and leaded by whoever. These guilds can also rise in power and gain influence in city.
DM's can support easily in that kind of actions, since things keeps in hand without need to do server updates etc.

its needles to say that lots of things are possible and also its needles to say that some things cannot be done. I am 100% sure that nothing is prohibited without a very good reason.